O/T The Gov, Not Fit for Fracking Purpose!!!

[villamiller]

I've no idea whether they would frack near Sandringham and neither do you. I'm sure that I've seen onshore oil production in that area.

Maggie Thatcher didn't bury coal. That was done by geological activity. The UK coal industry was brought to an end by economics - productions costs were too high. In addition, there was a cost associated with the highly unionised nature of the industry and the militant nature of the principal union, which resulted in regular acts of economic vandalism that affected the whole country.

Carbon capture is not really viable.

That is really throwing the ground bait in Ker...... I won't bite ,but I could .... being an ex miner an all

[Amanda_Hugg_n_Kiss]

Doing a bit of thinking undoubtedly would.

Right back at you. Please help me!

[millmoormagic]

I've no idea whether they would frack near Sandringham and neither do you. I'm sure that I've seen onshore oil production in that area.

Maggie Thatcher didn't bury coal. That was done by geological activity. The UK coal industry was brought to an end by economics - productions costs were too high. In addition, there was a cost associated with the highly unionised nature of the industry and the militant nature of the principal union, which resulted in regular acts of economic vandalism that affected the whole country.

Carbon capture is not really viable.

Ok, i'll have a go, firstly, as you know full well, you're just being cheeky, UK coal production and it's demise wasn't brought to an end by economics, moreso politicsas you're well aware. Secondly, what costs were induced by the highly unionised nature of the industry and the 'percieved' militancy of that union?

[tony260674]

Kerr and Millmoormagic, you are both right but you are both wrong. The coal industry in the UK was no longer economically viable and it was only going to get worse. A responsible government would have said 'look, the pits are going to be mothballed but here is what we are going to do, we will retrain the workforce, we will offer incentives to companies who invest in coal mining areas, we will offer tax breaks to employers who employ former miners, we will stand by the mining communities. Instead the government at the time used the circumstances to push forward an agenda that would ultimately crush the union movement and change workers rights in this country. It certainly was politically motivated and the side effects of this policy are still felt around former mining communities, many of which have mass unemployment, 3 or 4 generations who have never worked and have no role models of work, high drug dependancy and little hope of improvement.

[millmoormagic]

Kerr and Millmoormagic, you are both right but you are both wrong. The coal industry in the UK was no longer economically viable and it was only going to get worse. A responsible government would have said 'look, the pits are going to be mothballed but here is what we are going to do, we will retrain the workforce, we will offer incentives to companies who invest in coal mining areas, we will offer tax breaks to employers who employ former miners, we will stand by the mining communities. Instead the government at the time used the circumstances to push forward an agenda that would ultimately crush the union movement and change workers rights in this country. It certainly was politically motivated and the side effects of this policy are still felt around former mining communities, many of which have mass unemployment, 3 or 4 generations who have never worked and have no role models of work, high drug dependancy and little hope of improvement.

No longer economically viable...answer me a question Tony, how much has the mass unemployment, drug dependancy etc etc cost the country as a whole, over the years? I would hazard a guess that it would far outweigh any 'uneconomic' coal mine...furthermore, take my own colliery, Silverwood, consistently made profit year on year, as did many others, it made profit in it's final year also, they shut it in 1994, go figure. I get the environmental side of burning fossil fuels and the need as a globe to reduce it as much as we can, but it's folly not to use the resources available as a country.

[tony260674]

Firstly MMM, I have never been down a pit in my life and would never wish to be seen to be lecturing anyone that had. The industry as a whole was never going to survive no matter who had been in government. As I said, maybe a Labour government would have given the industry another 10 years as they may have the steel industry, shipmaking industry and other areas of manufacturing but in the end it would have been the same. There is no coal mining industry in this country any more, there is no shipbuilding and I am sorry to say before too long there will be no steel industry. If the pits had been viable then private investment would have taken them on.
What I agree with you wholeheartedly on is the external costs which was the point I was trying to make. The way the pits were closed was politically motivated and was done in a way which led to the curtailment of union rights and legislation regarding industrial action. I doubt very much that Margaret Thatcher's motives were to create communities that had not recovered 3 generations down the road but I doubt even more that she would have lost any sleep over it either way.

[millmoormagic]

I agree, in terms of the capitalist way of how things are done, and don't get me wrong, i'm no raging communist, but surely decisions which affect the country as a whole have to be taken as such. Forward thinking and a more radical approach should've been adopted which would benefit the whole, instead of the few, we're still, in my view, suffering from the policies of the tory, and later the new labour governments in regard to our social well being as a country.

[Brin]

No longer economically viable...answer me a question Tony, how much has the mass unemployment, drug dependancy etc etc cost the country as a whole, over the years? I would hazard a guess that it would far outweigh any 'uneconomic' coal mine...furthermore, take my own colliery, Silverwood, consistently made profit year on year, as did many others, it made profit in it's final year also, they shut it in 1994, go figure. I get the environmental side of burning fossil fuels and the need as a globe to reduce it as much as we can, but it's folly not to use the resources available as a country.

MMM....I too worked at Silverwood as did my Grand father three uncles my cousin brother and brother in law....

Rise side opposite 12's even 14's swallow wood seam... There is well over a million tons of viable coal left there for eternity..,

We were then as heading men sent to the Haigh moor seam I drove 51's loader gate on a LH1300 heading machine before I left...

It is well founded common knowledge that the demise of the coal mining industry was politically minded from 'both' sides that it was a win at all costs with Thatcher the triumphant winner and Scargill left to lick his wounds... but he was right on so may pit closures that could have and should have be retained as they were commercially viable to operate... Thatcher 'needed' to stamp out the unions at all costs because she so strongly believed in vengeance after the Ted Heath resignation in 73!

[Brin]

I've no idea whether they would frack near Sandringham and neither do you. I'm sure that I've seen onshore oil production in that area.

Maggie Thatcher didn't bury coal. That was done by geological activity. The UK coal industry was brought to an end by economics - productions costs were too high. In addition, there was a cost associated with the highly unionised nature of the industry and the militant nature of the principal union, which resulted in regular acts of economic vandalism that affected the whole country.

Carbon capture is not really viable.

Typical ignorant stupid Bolox as always ....

Then again we are talking about something 'black'

[great_fire]

Coal mining certainly isn't viable anymore, all the coal-fired power stations are being closed due to environmental regulations whereas fracking is much cleaner (and less of a blot on the landscape than those awful windmills as well).