Trump'in

[ramAnag]

Have to say I agree with that first line of Swale's 100% and I am trying to change peoples' minds but apparently without much success.
What confuses me is this reliance on 'opposites' to defend peoples' voting actions where both Brexit and Trump are concerned.
I can understand people being fed up with EU bureaucracy and accept that there are issues with immigration that need addressing but all that's happened is that we - a questionable majority of the electorate - have had some sort of collective reactionary 'hissy fit' and voted for the opposite despite it being likely to be even worse for the country.
Likewise with Trump and Clinton. I totally accept that Clinton is a 'crook' and part of an elite political establishment but Trump is, by any standards, infinitely more disreputable and the same 'well we don't like what's happened so we'll vote for anything however mad and bad' mentality has prevailed again only to make the US more divided and the World more dangerous.
As for Trump the 'politician', Swale...the change has already begun. 'Crooked Hillary' who he was going to put in jail is now apparently a brave fighter who can be proud of her achievements. Obama, who Trump has been scathing about throughout his presidency, is now apparently a man who should be proud of his term of office and who he hopes to learn a lot from. This is what politicians do...they call each other every name under the sun and then at a time of actual or political 'death' suddenly start to praise them. I really hate that. To take two examples, I loath and detest Billy Davis and Nigel Farage. IMO they're a couple of duplicitous hypoctrites...and when their lives come to an end nothing will have changed for me...they'll just be a dead pair of duplicitous hypocrites.

[Trickytreesreds]

Have to say I agree with that first line of Swale's 100% and I am trying to change peoples' minds but apparently without much success.
What confuses me is this reliance on 'opposites' to defend peoples' voting actions where both Brexit and Trump are concerned.
I can understand people being fed up with EU bureaucracy and accept that there are issues with immigration that need addressing but all that's happened is that we - a questionable majority of the electorate - have had some sort of collective reactionary 'hissy fit' and voted for the opposite despite it being likely to be even worse for the country.
Likewise with Trump and Clinton. I totally accept that Clinton is a 'crook' and part of an elite political establishment but Trump is, by any standards, infinitely more disreputable and the same 'well we don't like what's happened so we'll vote for anything however mad and bad' mentality has prevailed again only to make the US more divided and the World more dangerous.
As for Trump the 'politician', Swale...the change has already begun. 'Crooked Hillary' who he was going to put in jail is now apparently a brave fighter who can be proud of her achievements. Obama, who Trump has been scathing about throughout his presidency, is now apparently a man who should be proud of his term of office and who he hopes to learn a lot from. This is what politicians do...they call each other every name under the sun and then at a time of actual or political 'death' suddenly start to praise them. I really hate that. To take two examples, I loath and detest Billy Davis and Nigel Farage. IMO they're a couple of duplicitous hypoctrites...and when their lives come to an end nothing will have changed for me...they'll just be a dead pair of duplicitous hypocrites.

Morning ramanag,

fair points and I get your stance.
However, like the Brexit vote. Have you considered that folks may have simply "had enough" of being hog washed by the same bull ****, from the same clones all the time?
Call it a protest vote if you wish. To break the chain of repetition and endless cycle of manipulation.
Brexit was always that. It may hurt for a while, but we'll get over it. When you have a point to prove in your job, you strike. It hurts you in the pocket, but you get over it.
You believe it's a disaster, I don't. I think there's loads to gain out of this. The EU must be ****ting bricks at the moment. They've publicly ridiculed Trump, TRIED TO SLAP US DOWN. Now Trump has promised to put us first. The very fact he has already threatened to withdraw from NATO means they're on their own with their fragile economy.

The Yanks have had the same bollox for years. Clinton is a classic establishment clone. The what's in it for me brigade.
Well, like Brexit. They backed the idiot to prove point. Even one third of the hispanics, that Trump is supposed to hate, voted for him.

Like Brexit the people have chose. They'll have their share of crying babies like Nick Clegg(spinless wet fish he is), but so what.

GET ON WITH IT!!!

[mistaram]

Like it

[Trickytreesreds]

Ah so telling complete lies is fighting a brilliant election campaign???? Bit like going round the country in a bus which states £350 million to go to the NHS? Please tell me when that big fat lie is going to happen?

In one election address alone Trump was shown to have said 47 completely untrue statements!! The media did not make Trump look evil any sane person has just to listen to what he said to realise the guy is a total ****e - look at his business dealings, hw many times has he gone bankrupt? How many "little people" and companies were left with unpaid debts when that happened and he walked away untouched?

Mind you if you believe the majority of people in the UK a voted for brexit and the majority of people in the Us voted for Trump then i can kinda see how you ignore the lies and believe its some form of media conspiracy!

Point of fact - MORE people voted for Clinton than Trump - so clearly not the majority of people voting for him and 37% of the Uk voting population voted for Brexit, NOT a majority there either!!

As for Farage a complete and utter arse who has not since Brexit explained what he thinks should happen!!

Come on Swale, it doesn't even say that. It suggested it would be a good idea to spend it on the NHS,

Are you suggesting everyone is that thick to not realise that?

I'm still waiting for the emergency tax, war in Europe, £6000 per house hold, and on and on.
Of course politicians lie.
Which is the whole point of a protest. Take Clegg. Screaming like a bitch about Brexit and trying to be the peoples friend. How can anyone, trust one word out of this snakes mouth. Quote- "There will be no student loans in England, I promise. "

LIAR LIAR LIAR

This 37% thing makes me laugh. So did 63% vote remain?
No no they didn't. If every one could vote, didn't bother showing up, then whose fault is that exactly?

[swaledale]

Come on Swale, it doesn't even say that. It suggested it would be a good idea to spend it on the NHS,

Are you suggesting everyone is that thick to not realise that?

I'm still waiting for the emergency tax, war in Europe, £6000 per house hold, and on and on.
Of course politicians lie.
Which is the whole point of a protest. Take Clegg. Screaming like a bitch about Brexit and trying to be the peoples friend. How can anyone, trust one word out of this snakes mouth. Quote- "There will be no student loans in England, I promise. "

LIAR LIAR LIAR

This 37% thing makes me laugh. So did 63% vote remain?
No no they didn't. If every one could vote, didn't bother showing up, then whose fault is that exactly?

Welcome back Tricky the guy who has spouted more lies and quoted inaccurate and untruthful headlines from such wellr eknown truth tellers as the Daily express!

Your splitting hairs on the £350 million to the NHS, it was splashed all over the campaign bus and whatever subtly in the wording, most people would read it as going to the NHS not the EU and Boris in a TV interview both repeated it when the true figure being paid was £160 million in any case, so double *******s.

Yes lots of things were said by the remain camp, I've never suggested that they didn't exagerrate the effects or fail to campaign positively, it was crap...BUT your a wee bit too soon to claim that none of the negative effects of Brexit have shown up, as one we are still in the EU and secondly we are already seeing price rises and a falling pound.

Whereas none of the so called positives of brexit are likely to be realised - there wont be an extra £350 million to the NHS, we wont be free of EU law - most existing laws wil be incorporated into UK law, no choice as wit will take decades to change, if we still want to sell stuff in the Eu we wills till have to adhere to EU regulations - of course all this will be "voluntary" and we will still need migrant labour to keep the economy and services going.

The last laugh is that far from Brexit and Trump being a triumph of the "common people" over the elite, it is actually a triumph of the older richer establishment who are backward looking over the new more forward thinking elite, as will be come clear the common people, both here and in the Us will be screwed yet again!!

[macstheman]

Twas ever thus!!

[ramAnag]

Well I'm glad, if a little surprised, to see you agree that Brexit 'backed the idiot to prove a point', Tricky. Isn't that what Swale and I have been arguing for approaching five months now?

[alfinyalcabo]

Hola amigos,hope you are all keeping well and keeping up with the day to day running of our politicians and Americas as well ..

[swaledale]

The eally worrying thing is that Trump is opposed to free trade; a protectionist bent only on transactional deals in which America wins and the other side loses. Trump has no interest in spending US capital – diplomatic or financial – on upholding a global system that is, heaven knows, imperfect but at least aims to benefit everybody.

[ramspride]

The eally worrying thing is that Trump is opposed to free trade; a protectionist bent only on transactional deals in which America wins and the other side loses. Trump has no interest in spending US capital – diplomatic or financial – on upholding a global system that is, heaven knows, imperfect but at least aims to benefit everybody.

Sound like Me Trump has been listening to you he has backed off on a few of his election ideas. Does that mean he is a reasonable man?