Fans, supporters, spectators or customers...what are we?

[Ram59]

I think a fair measure of whether a club should be in the top flight, is whether knowledgeable fans from other clubs think you should be there. I think we all would agree that Newcastle should be in the top flight but not hull.

[roger_ramjet]

You have forgotten a certain team up the road who have also won the title there. And of vourse they have expctations of CL football soon woth all rhis new money injected

[BaaLocks]

I think a fair measure of whether a club should be in the top flight, is whether knowledgeable fans from other clubs think you should be there. I think we all would agree that Newcastle should be in the top flight but not hull.

Not me, Hull should be in the top flight because they got promoted last season, Newcastle shouldn't coz they got relegated. Simples. I don't buy any of this 'right to be there' bunkum, irrespective of how many titles, cups or appearances on MoTD we might pull out to make the case.

[Ram59]

Not me, Hull should be in the top flight because they got promoted last season, Newcastle shouldn't coz they got relegated. Simples. I don't buy any of this 'right to be there' bunkum, irrespective of how many titles, cups or appearances on MoTD we might pull out to make the case.

What I was trying to put across but not finding the right words, is that most fans think their team belong in the top flight, but you compare us with Bolton and Coventry. I would suggest that virtually all independent fans would say that we're one of the top 20 clubs in the country but not Bolton and Coventry.

I agree that you have to earn the right to play there.

[ramAnag]

What I was trying to put across but not finding the right words, is that most fans think their team belong in the top flight, but you compare us with Bolton and Coventry. I would suggest that virtually all independent fans would say that we're one of the top 20 clubs in the country but not Bolton and Coventry.

I agree that you have to earn the right to play there.

Agree with BaaLocks about who ever gets promoted/relegated deserving to play in that division but although I get what you mean about Newcastle I'm never altogether sure why. They have enormous support, but so do Sunderland...they have a great tradition...but so do PNE and Wolves and like all those clubs they've achieved virtually nothing (Sunderland in '73 apart) in the last sixty odd years.

[mistaram]

Agree any team that gets promoted deserves to be there But the Premiere League don't want the.likes is Watford Bournemouth and Hull etc that's why they altered the parachute payments to keep the status quo

[ramAnag]

Difficult to measure success. Most attempts have the usual suspects, Man.Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton and Spurs as the most successful but that is hugely dependent on era's such as those associated with Fergie and Abramovicz.
In contrast we are 24/25th in terms of trophies won, in the not so illustrious company of Ipswich and PNE. Disappointingly Forest are joint 9th with Newcastle but before the tree huggers get too excited this form of measurement also has Old Etonians and Old Carthusians as being 'more successful' than teams like Southampton, Middlesbrough, QPR and Stoke so it's not too meaningful.
Factoring in more modern indicators, Talk Sport has us as the 19th biggest club in England and the best supported outside the Premiership, closely followed by Leeds. Sounds about right imo but clearly shows how much our status as one of England's top twenty clubs owes to the fan base. Without that level of, sometimes inexplicably consistent, support we really would be on a par with the likes of PNE and Notts County...grand old clubs but with little immediate hope for the future. Maybe the club owes more to it's paying public than was thought.

[Ram59]

Difficult to measure success. Most attempts have the usual suspects, Man.Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton and Spurs as the most successful but that is hugely dependent on era's such as those associated with Fergie and Abramovicz.
In contrast we are 24/25th in terms of trophies won, in the not so illustrious company of Ipswich and PNE. Disappointingly Forest are joint 9th with Newcastle but before the tree huggers get too excited this form of measurement also has Old Etonians and Old Carthusians as being 'more successful' than teams like Southampton, Middlesbrough, QPR and Stoke so it's not too meaningful.
Factoring in more modern indicators, Talk Sport has us as the 19th biggest club in England and the best supported outside the Premiership, closely followed by Leeds. Sounds about right imo but clearly shows how much our status as one of England's top twenty clubs owes to the fan base. Without that level of, sometimes inexplicably consistent, support we really would be on a par with the likes of PNE and Notts County...grand old clubs but with little immediate hope for the future. Maybe the club owes more to it's paying public than was thought.

It would be interesting to see their weighting factors, because I can't see how the likes of stoke, wba and palace are all above us. They are all in the premier, but that could change in 6 months. We are superior in crowds, stadium, training Facilities and trophies won.

I would also dispute Southampton and fester but those are less clear cut.

[roger_ramjet]

Following on 3 social media and utube seem to be important in this ranking

[ramAnag]

Little doubt that Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, both Manchester clubs, Arsenal, Everton, Leeds, Villa, probably West Ham, Newcastle and Sunderland are 'bigger' than us although the latter two seem to rely, a bit like ourselves, on fan base as much as recent achievement for their reputation.
Then there's those who are probably on a kind of cyclical par with us, e.g. WBA, Stoke, Southampton, Leicester, Boro, Wolves and the ones like Bolton, Blackburn, Forest and Portsmouth whose achievements now appear firmly in the past. Clubs like Burnley, Swansea and Palace may currently be in the ascendancy but can't really be considered 'bigger' clubs so our natural habitat is probably somewhere between 15th and 25th but it owes as much to our support, facilities and the fact that Derby itself is a bit of a football 'hotbed', as it does to playing achievement, Clough, Mackay, Cox and Smith's teams apart.