OT The Lunatics have taken over the Assylum

[Andy_Faber]

Suppose the obvious answer is...I'll talk to whoever I like Swale, but seeing as it's you who's asking and because I sympathise entirely with what you're actually suggesting, the more serious answer is...it's sadly because the 'left' is so far up it's own backside and no longer communicates with or relates to people posing questions like Tricky that the referendum vote was lost. There are many people on here who's views I disagree with and who probably disagree equally vehemently with mine but you don't change political mindsets by adopting some sort of elitist stance, you only do it by debate although, tbh, I seem to have been spectacularly unsuccessful in that respect.

I wouldnt say that R, I listen to and think about all you say because you appear to speak out of conviction not bigotry.

[ramAnag]

I wouldnt say that R, I listen to and think about all you say because you appear to speak out of conviction not bigotry.

Steady Andy...pleasantness and this forum don't exactly go hand in hand at the moment. Thanks anyway...nicest thing anyone's said for a while...now don't spoil it by completing your sentence by adding...'then I dismiss it all as total bollux anyway'.

P.S. Thinking about it...you went from voting Remain to defending Brexit...so, sadly, I rest my case.

[Andy_Faber]

Steady Andy...pleasantness and this forum don't exactly go hand in hand at the moment. Thanks anyway...nicest thing anyone's said for a while...now don't spoil it by completing your sentence by adding...'then I dismiss it all as total bollux anyway'.

P.S. Thinking about it...you went from voting Remain to defending Brexit...so, sadly, I rest my case.

No case to rest, I continue to be up for the 'discussion', and I just think my approach is different to yours, I will attack a stance rather than defend it, might make me come over as a bit of a **** every so often (maybe more than I think) but it does hopefully promote debate. The four areas I keep churning over in my mind, which will roll on to the next election, are trade (on balance being in EU was probably lesser of two evils IMO), sovereignty (I was OK with the level we were at pre-referendum, fascinated to see if anyone feels we have a more Sovereign state after Brexit), immigration (I have fairly extreme views on the very long-term impact of a certain type of immigration which Brexit will indirectly have a bearing on) and sheer cost of the operation (which, if UKplc prove as wasteful as EU, I will happily renounce my nationality). They will keep churning and the discussion here inc. your mutterings have helped the 'churn'.

[ramAnag]

See, now you've gone and spoiled it...from 'speaking out of conviction' to 'mutterings'
Knew it was too good to last. Take your points though.

[swaledale]

No case to rest, I continue to be up for the 'discussion', and I just think my approach is different to yours, I will attack a stance rather than defend it, might make me come over as a bit of a **** every so often (maybe more than I think) but it does hopefully promote debate. The four areas I keep churning over in my mind, which will roll on to the next election, are trade (on balance being in EU was probably lesser of two evils IMO), sovereignty (I was OK with the level we were at pre-referendum, fascinated to see if anyone feels we have a more Sovereign state after Brexit), immigration (I have fairly extreme views on the very long-term impact of a certain type of immigration which Brexit will indirectly have a bearing on) and sheer cost of the operation (which, if UKplc prove as wasteful as EU, I will happily renounce my nationality). They will keep churning and the discussion here inc. your mutterings have helped the 'churn'.

Can't disagree with most of what you said Andy, though even the hard Brexit politicians are starting to admit that brexit will not have the effect on immigration which those who voted for it want - the truth is immigration will not fall because of Brexit simply because there is nobody else to do the jobs and economically we will be ****ed if we close that door...but of course we will have control, which effectively means same as before after all the criminals and terrorists won't come across the controlled borders.

[Andy_Faber]

Can't disagree with most of what you said Andy, though even the hard Brexit politicians are starting to admit that brexit will not have the effect on immigration which those who voted for it want - the truth is immigration will not fall because of Brexit simply because there is nobody else to do the jobs and economically we will be ****ed if we close that door...but of course we will have control, which effectively means same as before after all the criminals and terrorists won't come across the controlled borders.

I agree with you on the jobs thing to a point, although I do think that the whole thing is starting to be a beast that feeds itself, some of the 'slave labour' is now needed to service former EU grafters who've moved on up in the world.