O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Grist,

I see that you carefully edited the last point on "Overall Effectiveness at the last Inspection......Inadequate" in "Overall Effectiveness......Inadequate". Why would you do that? My observations are trying to make suggestions for a positive way forward, to find solutions. I've no problem with people finding constructive criticisms of my thoughts but that editing looks a bit sinister.

Reading up on the latest Ofsted report just finds that the quality systems are at fault, that the school haven't put in good quality checks on teaching and systems used and that the current head received GOOD for leadership and management and ofsted acknowledge that the head is instigated quality systems that they expect will result in good outcomes in all areas. I've been a teacher for 20 years and am a senior leader, I know enough to know that the problems ofsted identified are nothing to do with the kids there and point out that "Pupils’ spiritual, moral, social and cultural development is promoted effectively", "Pupils’ conduct in and around the school is orderly, polite and respectful. Pupils feel safe at school" and "At the time of this inspection pupils were very engaged in a mock European Union referendum to support their understanding of democratic values in modern Britain. Year 10 pupils have also attended challenging workshops to secure their understanding of the risks of extremism".

Look around Rotherham, London, everywhere, you will find schools that "require improvement" - are they all "failed social experiments of forced integration"?

I find that your statement, closely followed by Mr Great Fire who says "Multiculturalism might work but not with Islam, Islam is about conquest not co-existence" really worrying. "Islam is about conquest not co-existence" No it isn't! Have you ever spoke to any Muslims about Islam? As I've said, some are my colleagues and friends, and my daughter is going to school everyday with children being raised as practicing Muslims; they and their parents engage with their school communities in just the same way as we do, and several will be attending my kids upcoming birthday party in a couple of weeks. In what way are these Muslims wanting conquest? The birthday cake?

I despair that educated people like yourselves can take an observation/idea/thought and somehow manage to twist it into "kids suffering again in failed social experiment" and particularly "Islam is about conquest not co-existence" simply as it seems to indicate a hostility to the very idea that we might all, different cultures, get along with each other. It indicates that this aim is something that you are not even willing to work towards. Is that how you really feel?

It was only reduced by me to make it readable, I'm not a fan of the verbal diarrhoea that some knock out.

I did however leave out the bit that the school in question was at one time on Ofsted "special measures"

It's a politically correct attempt at forced integration and is dramatically failing those poor souls that have to go there.

[millmoormagic]

It's great that you post all that about Tommy, Neville, without actually knowing what you are talking about, safe for copying and pasting something you have read written by someone with an agenda, but I will come back to that.

I actually agree with some of the things the article is suggesting. But it conveniently only discusses what the ISIS leadership want. When some bellend in Manchester/Belgium/Germany/France commits an act of terrorism and they haven't even spoken to anyone involved with ISIS, I don't think they are trying to divide us, I think they are trying to kill as many of us as possible.

Ah, you will say, but that is BECAUSE ISIS through clever propaganda have manipulated that person(s) into believing what they say is true, using that person as a pawn. That still doesn't bring back any dead people. And it doesn't alter the fact that the only reason ISIS have got their warped world view is down to Islam in the first place. The same Islam that every Muslim follows, despite the different interpretations.

The article also conveniently neglects to even mention other Islamic extremist organisations. There have been many before ISIS and I daresay there will be many more after. And despite the fact you people like to conveniently forget about all these other organisations nowadays, and just focus on ISIS, unfortunately they are still here. So whilst it's very easy for you people to pretend that ISIS and terrorism only exist to try to divide us, and make moderate Muslims join us or them, no inbetween, it's just not true. Islamic terrorism exists for many different reasons all across the globe, and whichever way the agenda driven left try to make excuses, lie or otherwise lead us away from what is happening, Islamic terrorism is Islamic terrorism.

As for other parts of the article, yes, unfortunately, there are idiots in our country who just want to hate. Bigots who just don't like brown people or Muslims because they are brown, or because they come from somewhere else. I don't see ANYONE like that who has posted on this thread. But the fact that people like you try to put everyone who speaks out against Islam or Islamic extremists in the same category as actually real racists is a dangerous game.

And that brings me back to Tommy. I have challenged leftists with an agenda on here several times in the past to actually show me a post where I have been racist and no-one has ever been able to. The same with Tommy Robinson, show me ONE single statement he has ever made that is racist? You won't be able to, and neither you nor any of the other lefties on here will even address this point. You will just ignore it as you always do, but then the next time his name comes up, you will just spout the same old Guardian and Mirror based rubbish that he is an extremist, a bigot, a racist.

It's quite simple, Neville. You posted about how many times he has been in trouble with the law. Because of him speaking out against Islamism, he is denounced as a racist and is a marked man by the police.... Yet how many times has he been arrested for killing a Muslim? Or raping a Muslim? Or physically attacking a Muslim? Erm, it's none. Okay, so he's not as bad as Islamic terrorists or *****phile grooming gangs (despite millmoortragic stating several times that people like him and me are the biggest danger to this country. To anyone living in the real world, just digest that for a minute......... Yes, people like me and Tommy Robinson, because we dare to criticise Islam are a bigger danger to this country than Muslim terrorists and Muslim *****phile grooming gangs.... Let that sink in for how twisted these Leftists are.....).

But surely, being the MASSIVE racist that he is, he must have been done for verbally abusing a Muslim on the streets, yes? Erm, no.

Well, okay then, he is ALL OVER social media with his opinions, videos, posts everywhere.... But yet he has never been convicted of - or even arrested under suspicion of - ANY racist remark. Never. So if he was this far right racist, constantly posting on Twitter, constantly in the media spotlight, constantly harassed and attacked by the fascist far left, constantly targeted by the police, surely they would arrest him if he made racist statements? Exactly. All a lie from the far left with an agenda, facilitated by the lying media.

So to his actual offences he has been convicted of. I don't speak from a point of ignorance, just repeating something I saw on a leftist website, I actually know the background to it all.

And yes, one thing you could accuse Tommy Robinson of being was a thug. He used to be, in the eyes of a lot of people. Although, I think most blokes have had a scrap in their lives at some point, but anyway, I digress.......

Ah, good old Ellis, resorting to petty name calling as per usual when he's been shown for what he is..the truth of it, of all of it, is that the only way is to integrate, you nutjobs can pontificate all you want about it, but that's the only way.

Your way, the nutjob way, is to intern or deport....firstly internment doesn't work, proven fact. secondly, deportation only works if they're foreign....but lets say we go down your route, then you are well on your way to the civil war you so badly crave because you'd ostracise the entire muslim community in a stroke.
Now, of course there's much more that we can all do to integrate, and dare i say it yes the muslim community has a major part to play, but conflicts and terrorism are only ever solved through mediation and negotiation, that's a fact. Take a look at the rabid leftist Corbyn in 2003.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16BtpSCufU0

[Ellis_D]

I see that Sky News finally caught up to the original video on this thread today. You know, the one that brasstwohat said shouldn't be allowed on here because it's by a far right, racist bigot. Well, everything that Tommy Robinson said in this video, Sky News reported all as true today. I wonder if brasstwohat is going to call them far right, racist bigots too?

Also, Tony Bellew has spoken out about this, and he feels exactly the same as I do. And tens of millions of other people in this country. You liberal lefties are in the minority when you believe talking and showing love to these people will work. Tony Bellew says EXACTLY what I said! He personally would hang them, but if not, we should deport them or jail all the tw@ts on this terror list. Give it a watch, this is the feeling I see and hear almost everywhere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QTXhlbLlPs

[Ellis_D]

I don't need to twist anything fella, you're doing just fine on yourself...

"*******s to the human rights" = going against everything this country has stood up and fought for, for thousands of people who've lost their lives fighting for those human rights against all comers, hitler included, i wonder how much'concrete evidence' Adolph needed...

As for those on the list, those you'd willingly kill by the way, yep, they're on the list for a reason, and the fact they're on a list suggests that our security forces have some kind of control on the matter, they've done a great job upto yet, aided no doubt by members of the muslim community, but you can ignore that can't you...

Your arguments are straight out of the playground, you really do need to take a broader outlook because the only naive bloke here is you and your cohorts...

If we had a public vote on this, should we, A. Deport any foreigners on the terror suspects list and imprison any British ones, thereby greatly reducing the chances of further terror attacks here or B. Continue to monitor them - our security forces do a great job and have stopped many terror attacks, but of course some slip through, just like the recent ones in London and Manchester.

I guarantee at least 80-90% of British people would vote for A. You keep deluding yourself otherwise but it's quite clear what the public opinion is, people are sick of it and want action.

[Ellis_D]

Ellis, you misunderstand my point. The point of the spokesman's intervention was that Muslim condemnation of the Manchester atrocity is CONDITIONAL. He admits that disapproval of UK foreign policy is widely held by Muslims and that he and other Muslims in the UK see the attack as an INEVITABLE response to those policies. He made the quite appalling suggestion that such attacks might have the benefit of forcing the British people (interestingly he sees these as separate from British Muslims) to demand a more "moral" (ie pro-Muslim) foreign policy.
As for Kempo, strange how to every argument he has personal experience: how convenient he's just been treated by a Muslim doctor and dentist who were both great blokes. I have a doctor and a dentist and have no idea of their religious affiliations. If I did I would no idea of their views on UK foreign policy, homo***uality and a host of other issues. Kempo is simply a fabricator and you should trust nothing he says. Nothing.

No, I didn't misunderstand it mate. I was just making a separate point about it. I knew that was what the spokesman was saying, as you just explained, but just that it's a lie. Even IF we did bring it all upon ourselves, changing our foreign policy to a more pro-Muslim one would do nothing; ISIS wouldn't suddenly stop what they are doing, and we would still be at danger of terror attacks.

[Neville_Davitt]

- 28 November 2012, Charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit fraud by misrepresentation in relation to a mortgage application. Robinson pleaded guilty to two charges in November 2013. On 23 January 2014 he was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

--- This one was the biggest stitch up of all time. If you weren't so biased in your view and had actually done some research, you would see how Tommy is a target for the police. The police had targeted Tommy Robinson for years. They scrutinised every penny he had ever earned, every bill, invoice and receipt he'd ever issued or collected. They swarmed all over his family. They even got a warrant to go through his mum and dad's bank accounts - they did the same to anyone he had ever done business with. And after years of trying, they got nowhere, until this mortgage stitch up. He had enormous pressure put upon him by targeting not just him but his whole family and his friends, knowing that this could see him could under further stress from them.

How about the time he and Kevin Carroll were walking on a charity march for a little girl with cancer, and Kev Carroll was assaulted ON CAMERA, IN FRONT of the police by two violent, fascist, leftist thugs? And what did the police do? They arrested Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll! You don't believe me? Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEI0TKkX9_o

If Tommy had have punched one of those guys, he would absolutely have been arrested for assault. But one bloke pushed Tommy into the wall, and the other bloke punched Kev in the stomach right in front of the police! Two arrests made, the victims of the assault! Take your blinkers off and even surely you and your other leftie mates on here will see how unfair that all is?

What about the time he was in a pub with his children watching a game of football, and police came in and forced him out of the pub and out of the area, bullying him and upsetting his young children? The staff at the pub confirmed on camera that Tommy had done nothing wrong, nor had anyone else Tommy was with, but because the police don't like Tommy, they decided to treat him unfairly anyway. At the end of the video, the last few minutes you can hear his children crying, obviously distressed. The police tried to say it was because they were moving Luton fans out of the area, yet NO other Luton fans were removed from the pub, only Tommy and his group. It is persecution. Here is the video for that one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVOGpdAz7Lk

Then more recently, he went to France for Euro 2016. He had a St. George's flag that had "Fack ISIS" written on it. Now I am sure all of you will agree the only Muslims that flag targets are ISIS? Yes? And everyone including good/decent/moderate Muslims agree that ISIS are scum? Yes? It never said fack Muslims, or even Islam, Allah or Muhammad. Just fack ISIS. A clear insult to a terrorist organisation, no-one else. What did Bedfordshire Police do upon him returning to England? They arrested him for inciting racial hatred! IF that flag insulted any Muslims, they MUST be terrorists themselves or terrorist sympathisers. But I don't think it DID offend any normal/moderate Muslims. I think it was just another case of the police targeting Tommy and treating him unfairly.

From Wikipedia: Bedfordshire Police gave him a football banning order on his return; his lawyer Alison Gurden accused the police of a "campaign of harassment" and said that they had equated the proscribed terrorist group with all Muslims in their action.[68] In September, a judge at Luton Magistrates' Court dismissed the case, calling the prosecution's evidence "vague" and "cagey".[69]

So the judge dismissed that, as it was ridiculous. But it still shows the level of harassment Tommy has received from the police. He is constantly persecuted.


That is just a few of the many incidents that highlight how Tommy is targeted by the police for anything and everything. And this fraud case is simply shocking. Tommy did nothing wrong. He just lent his brother-in-law some money to get a mortgage. His brother-in-law was the one who lied on the application. He lent his brother-in-law £20,000, his brother-in-law overstated his earnings on his mortgage application and his brother-in-law made £30,000 when he sold the house and then paid Tommy back. That was it. The police decided to blackmail Tommy; simply, either plead guilty to the charges, or his wife would also be arrested and charged. Despite it having nothing to do with her. But the police knew Tommy couldn't risk that. Along with Tommy himself, he has received numerous threats, people saying they will murder his wife and children. Now, bearing in mind what we know about Muslim extremists, it's fairly obvious that the threats are real. Indeed, after an EDL rally once, the police stopped a car and found a group of Muslim extremists with all kinds of weapons including firearms - they were late, but they had gone to murder Tommy. Tommy has also passed on numerous death threats to the police, but they have NEVER made one single arrest. Now why would that be? A. Because they hate Tommy Robinson, and actually want him to be killed. And B. Because much like SYP refusing for years to take action against the Rotherham grooming gangs, the police don't want to be accused of being racist, so they allow Muslim extremists to make daily threats to Tommy and his family. He has printed out over 300 death threats to him on his Twitter account and handed it over to the police. How many arrests were made? 0. Despite Tommy doing the police's job for them by hunting lots of them down and finding out their names and addresses. This is people making all sorts of threats to Tommy rape and murder of him, his wife, his children and his mum. Compare that to the idiot who threatened to rape MP Stella Creasy on Twitter after she supported the idea of having Jane Austen put on the new £10 note. Would he have actually done it? Who knows, but he was jailed for 18 weeks. Yet the police refused to arrest ANYONE who threatened to rape and kill Tommy's mum and wife, chop up his children and kill Tommy. Radical, extremists, you know, from the religion of peace, I'm sure they aren't a serious threat!

Now, bearing all that in mind, be honest, what would you do? Tommy has managed to keep his family hidden, check the internet, you won't find any photos of his wife or children. But if his wife had to go to court for this 'mortgage fraud' she would be photographed and would become a target. Tommy has had to move house several times, and the police have issued him with six different Osman - specific and credible death threats uncovered by the police or security services. He has been assaulted numerous times by Muslims, and not ONE of those assailants has ever faced a criminal prosecution. What does that tell you about the persecution and victimisation of Tommy Robinson? As the title of his fantastic book says, he really is an Enemy of the State. So yes, of course, he pleaded guilty to these trumped up charges in order to protect his family.

So much more to say, but I do realise this is already three very long posts, so I'll leave it there.

Tommy Robinson's criminal convictions are a matter of record Ellis. But keep believing that there's a big leftist and/or state conspiracy against him and the EDL if it makes you feel better.

[ragingpup]

It was only reduced by me to make it readable, I'm not a fan of the verbal diarrhoea that some knock out.

I did however leave out the bit that the school in question was at one time on Ofsted "special measures"

It's a politically correct attempt at forced integration and is dramatically failing those poor souls that have to go there.

I think its fair to see that the school has been on a fair old journey, but as the ofsted report clearly says, the previous headmaster and the lack of teaching skills was the problem. It's exactly the same report as the college I recently started work; underskilled teachers who needed support and some lazy ones who needed shipping out. We moved from a 3 to a 2 in 12 months. The current head of this school will do the same, as Ofsted indicate in their report. When she gets that, can we then, with equal idiocy, call the 'experiment' a success?

If Ofsted is the barometer of multi cultural school success, how about my two nearest local schools? My daughter goes to Oakdale School, South Woodford with this ofsted profile: "The proportion of pupils from minority ethnic groups is above the national average. The largest single group of pupils is of White British heritage, with other sizeable groups having Other White, Pakistani, African, Caribbean or Mixed heritages. The proportion of pupils speaking English as an additional language is also above the national average".
Ofsted Grade: Good

Or our other local one has "The proportion of pupils from minority ethnic groups is much higher than average and has increased rapidly in the last three years. Tthe percentage of children with English as an additional language is also above average and is increasing"
Ofsted grade: Outstanding. http://www.nightingale.redbridge.sch...ruary_2010.pdf

So how do these schools which do naturally what the Oldham school are attempting to do manage to deliver excellent education to students from mixed cultures??


So it seems that my ideas for moving away from faith schools and allowing parents to keep their cultures separate is worth at least engaging with. If you do not feel it would work, or isn't a good idea to move in this direction, then please at least give a coherent reason as it looks, from out here, that you simply don't want to go in this direction. If that's the case, why not?


And can I ask you, and Mr Fire, or anyone that has contributed to this thread as they share an interest in moving towards a world where people don't feel the need to carry out atrocities justified by religious bigotry, if you had a school such as either of the two ofsted have profiled above with much higher than average ethnic diversity but outstanding/good standards - would you send your children there??

If not, why?

[millmoormagic]

If we had a public vote on this, should we, A. Deport any foreigners on the terror suspects list and imprison any British ones, thereby greatly reducing the chances of further terror attacks here or B. Continue to monitor them - our security forces do a great job and have stopped many terror attacks, but of course some slip through, just like the recent ones in London and Manchester.

I guarantee at least 80-90% of British people would vote for A. You keep deluding yourself otherwise but it's quite clear what the public opinion is, people are sick of it and want action.

You often talk of people being brainwashed, and the irony is you're one of the most brainwashed, don't you worry, you're quite correct, you're not alone, there's many like you, all been fed anti this and anti that for years and years, i dare bet you cheered when the first bombs hit Bhagdad, cheered and clapped our armed forces for their bravery-lions led by donkeys...

Back to your vote, you see, you're basing your 80-90% on your group, your inner circle, all surfing the same websites, all talking the same bull, all believing their own crap, that's the truth.

Now, should we deport all foreigners on any suspect list....YES, OF COURSE WE SHOULD, NO BRAINER..

Should we imprison(intern) British ones who, let's face it, are innocent at this point...we've tried that, remember Northern Ireland, the IRA, internment galvanised them, gave their whole community more focus to fight us in whatever way they could....guess what process stopped the killing? mediation and negotiation...

If we do things your way Ellis, then you really can wave goodbye to peace.

[Ellis_D]

Some good posts with some good ideas on here. Especially the splendidly named Neville Davitt with a far more eloquent summation of what we all should NOT do. Please everybody, read his post carefully.

I posted yesterday a few points from my own experience of living in East London and having local schools that take and function very well with a very mixed cultural population including Muslims. We have close friends of some of these kid's parents and three of these are committed Muslims, not old school and all of them are perfectly happy that their kids, and we parents mix and share our cultures. It's no ideal were living, its just what you do in a multi cultural community. For the kids, there are no barriers, the schools encourage celebration of all the community's religions and just get on with the education.

So for me, I can see the results of a mixed community that has already progressed down the road into multi racial cohesion. And I have obvious comparative experience of my upbringing and family and friends in Rotherham. Like many areas there is still a separation between the communities and despite efforts from the local council the communities remain entrenched. Trevor MacDonald's documentary "What Muslim's Really Think" caused a lot of controversy when it was aired from people who didn't agree with the programme research data that found that especially the elders of the Muslim community were against integration and were very protective of their culture and customs including what I consider to be negative ones on individual liberty. However, he also found that there was a stark contrast between the views of the community elders and the younger people who were found to be much more willing to integrate into the wider culture and rejected many of the beliefs of the elders. I think that it is essential to focus NOW on improving integration programmes in our communities so that these 'boundaries' are blurred and eventually overcome by the younger generations.

MacDonald's documentary also showed the work of this school in Oldham that has striven to create a school community deliberately from the two very segregated White and Pakistani communities.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/m...david-goodhart

This is still in early days but studies seem to indicate that the school community is prospering, its an Ofsted Good school and there are unusually low levels of racially based bullying. From my own kid's point of view, this multi racial community is just the way the world is to her. There simply is no issue of different cultures holding mysterious beliefs and custom. It's not perfect but what I'm getting at is that I am seeing the end result of what this school in Oldham is striving for, and it works. Kids just adapt and take on board what they see, be it from a school that places them shoulder to shoulder with mixed race schoolmates and encourages exploration and tolerance of differences, or from a cultural leader or parent that feels that their way of life is superior to others and does not want the two to mix.

So what to do? Practical initiatives I'd like to see are a strong government agenda to move away from segregated to mixed schools and for councils in areas where there are entrenched cultures to be empowered to create good schools and direct their populations to come from even representations of these different cultures. For me, it should not be optional, parents should not have the option of shielding their kids away from a diverse society that their kids have to eventually move into. Most certainly we should not allow public funds to help create faith schools of any kind that effectively cut children off from their world.

I know that this is not an immediate solution that people are looking for, that would 'feel' like it provides justice for the dreadful, inexcusable atrocities that these lunatics do but it is something that we could do now.

I agree with you 100% regarding forced mixing in schools. We DO need to do everything we can to integrate everyone. I do, sadly fear, that it might not work with a huge amount of Muslims, but we all know that there are A LOT of Muslims who HAVE managed to integrate into society. As a long term plan, this would be a positive step. Faith schools of all religions should be banned. The local councils already decide who goes to what school, so it would be down to them to make sure children from all walks of life are mixed. I also strongly believe that the government should be teaching evolution in school as fact and religion as man made rubbish. Obviously that would be met with polite resistance from the Christian community and from fierce, violent resistance from some members of the Islamic community. So we are probably a long way off from that yet..........

So as a long term strategy, of course, children are the future, we should start by banning faith schools, mixing races and religions in schools and therefore encouraging integration..... But will our government do it? They wouldn't dare. We can but hope.

Even so, that long term plan is sound. We still have the problem, though, of 4000 Muslims being suspected of being potential terrorists, being watched. We also have the problem that 50,000 Muslims downloaded the ISIS terror manual......

[CAMiller]

I used to love Tommy when he was singing songs like 2-4-6-8 Motorway and Glad To Be Gay but reading about him on here is giving me second thoughts