O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[kempo]

I love the fact that my two arch enemies are at each others throats.

Best case scenario is that they kill each other.

In a sort of metaphorical sense of course

.

[KerrAvon]

Ellis, I am impressed by your defence of Tommy Robinson’s criminal past, but I’m guessing that you are getting your ‘full stories’ from a source that may show a degree of bias towards him? I say that as some of the ‘full stories’ don’t make sense to a person with a little legal knowledge, as I like to pretend that I have.

Take your ‘full facts’ version of the 2003 incident:

- 2003 Convicted for drunken assault of an off-duty police officer who intervened to stop a domestic incident between Robinson and his then girlfriend. Served a 12-month prison sentence.

--- Only part of the story, but why would you take the time to investigate when you can just paint him out to be the kind of guy who gets drunk and punches police officers? The full story is, they had been out for his girlfriend's birthday, and p1ssed up on the way home, they were arguing - nothing more, but drunken raised voices. A bloke appeared from nowhere and told Tommy to do one and said he would walk Tommy's missus home. Tommy told him to p1ss off as it was none of his business. Tommy turned to walk after his girlfriend, and this other bloke rugby tackled him from behind, taking Tommy to the floor, leaving him with a cut on his head. The police officer in court agreed that this is how it all happened. Tommy then fought back and got the better of him, but kicked him once when he was on the floor. The police officer can't have been badly hurt because he jumped straight up and told Tommy he was screwed now as he was a police officer.

Of course, Tommy got done for this in court, and the police officer got nothing. The judge decided it was all self defence up until the kick on the floor. But that is always the case, if it had been a normal bloke they both would have got done for fighting. Again though, the full story sounds completely different to 'Tommy drunkenly assaulted an off duty police officer'.

Many of us have had a scrap in our lives, but relatively few of us have had one that took us to the Crown Court (which must be the case here as the sentence exceeds that which can be imposed in a Magistrate’s Court ).

That the case was dealt with in the Crown Court has a number of implications for the ‘full fact’s version of the story:

1. The officer must have been badly hurt as the absolute minimum charge that must have been brought for it to go the Crown Court was that of assault occasioning actual bodily harm;
2. A Crown Court trial is heard in front of a jury who are the sole arbiters of the facts. They dod not indicate upon what basis a person has been found guilty (it would be illegal for them to do so). It wasn’t for the judge to decide that ‘it was all self-defence up until the kick on the floor’. That’s not his or her job and it would be highly improper from them to do so;
3. Speaking from experience stretching back just over thirty years, I would say that it is inconceivable that a jury would convict upon the ‘facts’ that you describe or that a sentence of twelve months would not be imposed.

I’m interested in the different approach that you adopt towards Muslims and Tommy Robinson. When you are talking about interning or deporting Muslims, you express total faith in the state to identify the right people, but then complain that Tommy is being persecuted and treated unfairly by the same people. That smacks of bias.

[KerrAvon]

I love the fact that my two arch enemies are at each others throats.

Best case scenario is that they kill each other.

In a sort of metaphorical sense of course

.

I'm not your enemy, kempo, let alone your arch enemy. I'm just someone who has disagreed with you from time to time and has been rewarded by being stalked in much the same way that Captain Hook was stalked by the crocodile in Peter Pan.

[monty_rhodes]

Kerr, I admire your front in coming on here having been outed on several footie boards across Yorkshire and exposed by Kempo. Some of your stuff is sad. You make a big, big point of me linking the guy's comments with Muslims and yet you acknowledge he himself linked UK foreign policy in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya to the Manchester atrocity. He later referred to said foreign policy being a regular topic of discussion in Muslim households. Do grow up and stop nitpicking.

[monty_rhodes]

I love the fact that my two arch enemies are at each others throats.

Best case scenario is that they kill each other.

In a sort of metaphorical sense of course



.

Kempo, hard to see how you can be my enemy when I have repeatedly stated that you don't actually exist in any meaningful sense. I simply enjoy pointing out the inconsistencies in the posts of the member posting under a variety of usernames, one of which is Kempo. If we met I'd shake your hand, buy you a pint and tell you how much I've enjoyed your contributions over the years. Neither am I an enemy of Kerr's. I disagree vehemently with his views but they are not dissimilar to the views of several friends and family members of mine.

[monty_rhodes]

Kerr, hurt by your accusation that I was a dissembler I asked someone to listen and then asked them if it was a reasonable conclusion of mine that the speaker was linking extremism to UK foreign policy, that criticism of foreign policy was widely discussed in Muslim households and that the British people could prevent acts of violence such as Manchester by requiring the UK government to adopt a more "moral" or pro-Muslim foreign policy. He felt that my conclusion accurately captured the gist of the comments. QED.

[KerrAvon]

What I thought it proved was that if the foreign policy of a democratically elected government was considered not to be "moral" then violent acts of extremism were a natural and inevitable consequence. This certainly was the impression of a number of contributors to the later debate over Corbyn's views on foreign policy. What do you think of the 23000 figure? Probably made up as you claimed originally that the Rotherham child abuse scandal was?

I think an 'immoral' foreign policy will inevitably lead to extremism.

We are currently commemorating 100 years since the Great War; when our kids are taught about that conflict, they are told about the tensions that created a risk of war, the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and the Battle of The Somme. They may be taught about the sinking of the Lusitania and how that played a part in the entry of the US into the conflict.

When learning about World War 1, Arab children are taught about how they rose against the Ottoman Empire in 1916 with the active encouragement and support of the British and French. They are taught that they were promised their independence if they did so, but were betrayed by the secretly signed Sykes Picot agreement, which essentially divided their lands up between Britain and France and set the ball in motion for the creation of the state of Israel.

We were active participants in creating Israel, which, however you look at it, involved taking land belonging to one group of people and giving it to another.

We interfered in the governance of Arab countries to ensure that pro-Western governments and dictators remained in power so as to ensure our supplies of oil. We participated in acts of regime change in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya and an attempted act of regime change in Syria. It would be one thing if our actions left those countries in a better state for the people who lived there, but they didn’t in many important respects.

The point the chap was making about Libya was that the British and French encouraged and assisted in the overthrow of Gaddafi and that David Cameron promised that we would ‘stand with you as you build your country and build your democracy for the future’, whereas the reality of the situation is that we kicked over the ants nest and then walked away leaving others to live with the consequences.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...to-the-abyss/#

None of the above comes even remotely near to excusing what happened in Manchester. I doubt whether many of the people there had heard of Sykes-Picot or were alive when Israel was created, but to ignore the undoubted effects of our actions in creating extremism is foolish, not least because it raises the risk that we will continue to do it in the future.

I think the 23000 figure is very worrying. I have never claimed that the child abuse scandal was made up. Why are you raising that on this thread?

[great_fire]

Hundreds of thousands of children have been raped by Muslim gangs in the UK, that's far worse than anything British troops have done in the Middle East, and a million times worse than anything Tommy Robinson has ever done.

[KerrAvon]

Kerr, hurt by your accusation that I was a dissembler I asked someone to listen and then asked them if it was a reasonable conclusion of mine that the speaker was linking extremism to UK foreign policy, that criticism of foreign policy was widely discussed in Muslim households and that the British people could prevent acts of violence such as Manchester by requiring the UK government to adopt a more "moral" or pro-Muslim foreign policy. He felt that my conclusion accurately captured the gist of the comments. QED.

That's me done for then. You asked someone to agree with you and they did. QED

[rolymiller]

Good post as usual Celticmiller. Millersmad should open up ia branch of extreme right wing views only so that the rest of us dont have to read all the crap they put out. It could be an exclusive club - get the pun by the way .It would be the usual gang of about 6 (the massive minority of views on here) with guest appearances by the likes of Tur(d)f and Acido (obvious members of extreme right wing organisations/ footy hooligans stirring it up). The rest of us can get on with reading the reasonable views (the massive majority) of the rest of the millers fans on here.

(Better still, find a little uninhabited planet somewhere in another galaxy and send em on the next rocket to live there. Everyones happy then. Prob solved).