The Labour Party Conference

[army88]

But BT nationalisatioin isn't investment at all. It's buying something that needs investment. A bit like renting your car or buying it. If you rent it you save £20000 that you can spend on extras. If you spend your £20000 on the car you have no money to invest.
There isn't a money tree and the people and business Labour wish to punish at the top of it can and many will move elsewhere. Then you have to punish the masses, then you lose popularity and run out of money. You can borrow the £20000 to create an illusion of investment, but you have to pay interest just as you do on your rented car.
Just look at the SNP housing taxes which have killed off the sale of expensive houses and left a £50M funding gap. They also left tax allowances frozen and not increased for inflation, putting up taxes for middle and upper classes. No major businesses have moved here recently. Have you seen their popularity ratings.
North Sea oil has left a big funding gap as the price or oil and output has fallen maybe fracking can help boost the income, but till it does there is a lot of borrowing going on to maintain things we can't afford. The NHS is unsustainable without some limits. Do we pay £20m for one persons treatment, can people phone ambulances 8 times a day and expect them to come every time. In Scotland 2% yes 2% of the population occupy 75% of all NHS beds and consume 50% of the drug bill. This may be due to the lack of social care support i.e. No carers to keep them at home.

http://ihub.scot/a-z-programmes/lwic...duals/Overview

In Scotland, a very small proportion of the population uses half of the total hospital and prescribing budget. In fact:

2% of the population in Scotland used 50% of the hospital and community prescribing resource in 2012/13
This translates to 103,715 people using £2.6bn of the hospital and prescribing resources
The 2% of the population used 77% of inpatient bed days
This translates to 103,715 people using approximately 4.9m bed days (4.4m of these through unplanned admissions1)
There is potential for partnerships to gain a better understanding of how resources are used, and how services are interacted with, in their area, to better align services and improve pathways.

If only it were a case of throwing money at health sorry that's far too simplistic.

There will never be enough money to throw at health Oc, it's simply a black hole that can't be fixed.

It really needs a proper business man, woman in charge with an incentive based on money saved, ( whilst it's brilliant our Nhs ) it has many glitches - faults some going back to previous governments - for example no investment in student nurses - doctors , stopped some time ago so importing from Europe and further afield.
There are many more examples than that why it leaks money.

[oldcolner]

There will never be enough money to throw at health Oc, it's simply a black hole that can't be fixed.

It really needs a proper business man, woman in charge with an incentive based on money saved, ( whilst it's brilliant our Nhs ) it has many glitches - faults some going back to previous governments - for example no investment in student nurses - doctors , stopped some time ago so importing from Europe and further afield.
There are many more examples than that why it leaks money.

Army
Our NHS is one of the best in the world provided for everyone free apart from prescription charges. However we spend much less on the service than many other countries. The US spends more than us but has a system where people cannot access all services and much is insurnace based. At the other end Turkey spends a quarter of what we do.
In Estonia we were told there is a six year wait for a hip replacement.


We have an aging population that need more social care but as local authorities cut back people go to the NHS A&E or phone an ambulance making their care an NHS issue. Some of these cannot be discharged because they need social care assessment and staff shortages delay them and they may stay for weeks blocking beds. Some of these want to die but the law doesn't allow assisted suicide.
Other people have unreasonable expectations and demand lastest expensive drugs that may have no effect or give them 6 weeks more Quality life at the expense of someone's new hip operation.
There needs to be a public debate on the key issues and an acceptance of copayment as used in Germany for those who can afford it.
A lot of NHS money is going to pay for PFI hospital new buildings and have to be repaid over 30 years. In thi sthe private sector takes many of the risks but we then pay for that at what is seen as excessive prices. After 30 years we get the hospital back, but by then needs will be different.
So a grand debate let's get the managers professionals and public deciding what we can all do.we could offer to pay a higher NI sum or 1p more on taxes.

[1959_60]

Agree with that OC. Lib Dems currently saying 1 pence on income tax to raise £6 billion.

In fact, we are presenting a session at the Lib Dem regional conference in October which, hopefully, will become Lib Dem policy following the Spring Conference.

We are suggesting that over the next 5 years we commit to spending an extra £3 billion on social care. Within the five year period social care will be merged with the NHS to produce a new body - The National Health and Care Service (NHCS)

I have been in long discussions with the National Care Service (the chairperson will be supporting this policy initiative at the October conference), The Kings Trust, the OECD, the ONS and other bodies and they all agree that the social care service needs the extra £3 billion per annum for the next 5 years to give a good service. In 5 years time the problem will escalate due to our ageing population. These bodies are all in agreement that merging the services within the next 5 years will make a massive difference.
People who have been treated by the NHS will be able to access longer term care without having to start dealing with a different organisation, the problems such as bed blocking will be addressed much better and the overall cost of the two services will be much more efficient because a massive slice of bureaucracy will have been removed leading to considerable cost savings.
People need peace of mind, especially when they are unwell, and these new initiatives will lessen the worry about losing your (or a loved ones) life savings and even their family home.

Where would the extra £3 billion come from?
0.5 pence on income tax or
0.6 pence on National Insurance or
0.6 pence on VAT or
Scrap Trident renewal or
Scrap HS2.

[1959_60]

I shouldn't need to point this out but,

Labour are largely funded by the unions. When Labour get in power it is payback time. (No such thing as a free lunch)

Tories are largely funded by big business. When the Tories get in power it is payback time (No such thing as a free lunch)

The Lib Dems are funded largely by it's own members. We don't have to kow-tow to anyone and therefore can act in the countries best interest.

So, as we have seen this week, Labour will be essentially anti big business, which creates most of our wealth.

Next week we will be seeing much more focus on big business and the rich which always leave the poorer in our country very vulnerable (as we are seeing right now)

The Lib Dem policies are much better balanced and can address the interests of the whole country.

I firmly believe that the intense polarisation of our politics will begin to end and the Lib Dems will begin to prosper pretty soon.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I shouldn't need to point this out but,

Labour are largely funded by the unions. When Labour get in power it is payback time. (No such thing as a free lunch)

Tories are largely funded by big business. When the Tories get in power it is payback time (No such thing as a free lunch)

The Lib Dems are funded largely by it's own members. We don't have to kow-tow to anyone and therefore can act in the countries best interest.

So, as we have seen this week, Labour will be essentially anti big business, which creates most of our wealth.

Next week we will be seeing much more focus on big business and the rich which always leave the poorer in our country very vulnerable (as we are seeing right now)

The Lib Dem policies are much better balanced and can address the interests of the whole country.

I firmly believe that the intense polarisation of our politics will begin to end and the Lib Dems will begin to prosper pretty soon.

The Labour Party are now being largely funded by it's own membership. Chip in and let's rock 'n' roll?

[1959_60]

Give over!

The latest figures I can find are (2015),

Labour £51 million including £millions from GMB, Unison, USDAW etc

Tories £42 million

Lib Dems £7.9 million

No free lunch BT?

If you truly believe in a level playing field and fairness then you are really a Lib Dem.

You just don't realise it yet!

[oldcolner]

59-60
We already have joint integrated health and Care boards in Scotland.
NIreland has had them for 40 years.
The problem is social care funding depends on Council Tax so unless these rates rise to provide the necessary home and care support the NHS is seen as a cash cow by local councils.
I would rather have a discussion on what the NHS should and should not do and who should pay what. When a service is free it is abused by a minority, to the detriment of others perhaps more needy. Too many use the doctor when they don't need to do our go to A&E when their pharmacy or go could fix it.
There is no appetite for many people to pay more taxes otherwise the Lib Dems would be in power and they aren't.

[Altobelli]

Running and maintaining a Country is like running your household, if you have money coming in you cut your cloth accordingly to that.



Our Country have lots of money coming in, but its only very bad Management by our past and present Governments who miss appropriate the funds badly.



Colner I'd disagree with our NHS being the best in the world, and if your figures are correct that Turkey only spends a quarter of what we do I'd say its miles better than our own, O.K. it may not be free but you don't have to wait 4 weeks for a scan or another 5 weeks for the results, or wait months for an operation be it a hip/shoulder or similar operation, they are very efficient, clean and very on the ball.



I wouldn't mind paying more income tax for a better NHS, or even £10 a month, but I'd rather not pay it the way it is run at the moment with too many Managers (pen pushers) we don't need, extortionate prices being paid for medical supplies and the way our system works (which it doesn't) in trying to enrol Nurse's is a disgrace.

[army88]

Army
Our NHS is one of the best in the world provided for everyone free apart from prescription charges. However we spend much less on the service than many other countries. The US spends more than us but has a system where people cannot access all services and much is insurnace based. At the other end Turkey spends a quarter of what we do.
In Estonia we were told there is a six year wait for a hip replacement.


We have an aging population that need more social care but as local authorities cut back people go to the NHS A&E or phone an ambulance making their care an NHS issue. Some of these cannot be discharged because they need social care assessment and staff shortages delay them and they may stay for weeks blocking beds. Some of these want to die but the law doesn't allow assisted suicide.
Other people have unreasonable expectations and demand lastest expensive drugs that may have no effect or give them 6 weeks more Quality life at the expense of someone's new hip operation.
There needs to be a public debate on the key issues and an acceptance of copayment as used in Germany for those who can afford it.
A lot of NHS money is going to pay for PFI hospital new buildings and have to be repaid over 30 years. In thi sthe private sector takes many of the risks but we then pay for that at what is seen as excessive prices. After 30 years we get the hospital back, but by then needs will be different.
So a grand debate let's get the managers professionals and public deciding what we can all do.we could offer to pay a higher NI sum or 1p more on taxes.

To be fair Oc I can appreciate a lot of what you are saying, but there are many issues other than those within the Nhs that contribute to my original black hole comment ( some of these I'm speaking from first hand experience over the last 15-20 years) .
My father worked there for many years and in his time the administration side quadrupled and the nursing side demised no apprenticeships trainees , no staff nurses , no sisters on wards.
Consultants working night shifts at £500 a night when junior doctors could do the job adequately ( all a knock on effect of not training enough juniors). ( this is happening now )
My point was Oc the 1p wouldn't be enough it will get swallowed up and then we'd need another 1p unless someone gets a grip of it and runs it correctly --- that's not a slur on the brilliant medical people who work in the the Nhs by the way---- something needs to be done.
Personally I'd pay the penny if it helps - I'm not convinced it will long term that's all.
To flip it completely the maintenance of hospitals where many are tied into a specific supplier for lighting for example ( a directive by government perhaps or maybe Nhs estates) - they are paying £250 per light fitting which could be easily supplied for £90 it goes on and on.