England youth success

[sam11]

U17 reached World Cup final and Euro final, U19 Euro winners, U20 won World Cup, U21 Euro semis and Toulon tournament winners, at the same time, two teams.
It's obvious that, as Wilko says, there are some great people in the game now. The kids are getting the very best care and the very best coaching.
So....the obvious question. Why does it go so spectacularly wrong afterwards? (I don't think that's any exaggeration).
It's a national disgrace, in my opinion.

[george_kaplan]

U17 reached World Cup final and Euro final, U19 Euro winners, U20 won World Cup, U21 Euro semis and Toulon tournament winners, at the same time, two teams.
It's obvious that, as Wilko says, there are some great people in the game now. The kids are getting the very best care and the very best coaching.
So....the obvious question. Why does it go so spectacularly wrong afterwards? (I don't think that's any exaggeration).
It's a national disgrace, in my opinion.

Two things spring to mind.......agents, money in any order you wish. Ohh and a couple of well known scummy clubs snap em all up and hide em away so no one else can have em!

[sam11]

Two things spring to mind.......agents, money in any order you wish. Ohh and a couple of well known scummy clubs snap em all up and hide em away so no one else can have em!

Money ye, in a way. Agents? They have them in other countries too.
It's because they can't, with a very few exceptions, get to move on to regular football at a good standard.
Look at our recruitment policy last summer.
Us, an average (budget-wise) championship club can go to Spain, a country with at least 50 players who would get in our national side, and buy outstanding players for our level for a fraction of what he'd cost here. An English Samu would be 15-20 million quids.
It'd be worth some of those U17 lads who've done so well out in India going abroad and getting regular first team football, imo.

[george_kaplan]

Fair point, I'd like it better if they learnt and plied there trade on our shores. A lot of potential gets snapped up and hidden away by a couple of well known clubs. Money does the talking. Hate swinging the lantern but years gone almost every team had half a dozen descent British players in the squad......and British managers also!......as we say money has put a end to that, everyone wants the quick fix and time is money.

[WTF11]

U17 reached World Cup final and Euro final, U19 Euro winners, U20 won World Cup, U21 Euro semis and Toulon tournament winners, at the same time, two teams.
It's obvious that, as Wilko says, there are some great people in the game now. The kids are getting the very best care and the very best coaching.
So....the obvious question. Why does it go so spectacularly wrong afterwards? (I don't think that's any exaggeration).
It's a national disgrace, in my opinion.

Simple, once they get past the age of 21ish, they are supplanted in 1st team terms by the foreign players that dominate the PL and to a lesser extent the Championship. Far fewer chances for competitive football leads to fewer world class potentials making it into 1st class teams.

And yes, I f00king hate the current set up where there appear to be no limits on the number of foreign players a club can field (not necessarily the balance of nationalities in a 1st team squad).

[sam11]

Simple, once they get past the age of 21ish, they are supplanted in 1st team terms by the foreign players that dominate the PL and to a lesser extent the Championship. Far fewer chances for competitive football leads to fewer world class potentials making it into 1st class teams.

And yes, I f00king hate the current set up where there appear to be no limits on the number of foreign players a club can field (not necessarily the balance of nationalities in a 1st team squad).

Agree fully. England suffer because of lack of opportunity, so many should try going abroad.
On a slightly different note, that's why us going up into the Prem won't be the Holy Grail, at least not for me.
Not saying I don't want us to do as well as possible, but I despise the way the game at the top level in this country has gone. And really enjoy the rollercoaster league we're currently in. Unpredictable but still a very good standard with some really good players.

[WTF11]

Agree fully. England suffer because of lack of opportunity, so many should try going abroad.
On a slightly different note, that's why us going up into the Prem won't be the Holy Grail, at least not for me.
Not saying I don't want us to do as well as possible, but I despise the way the game at the top level in this country has gone. And really enjoy the rollercoaster league we're currently in. Unpredictable but still a very good standard with some really good players.

Agree on the latter point, but as with so much that is football, the club will be driven by the money to be made when there, and to give the owners their due, the vast majority of fans won't stand for a club that doesn't aspire to the PL. Petard, your own, hoist on, arrange in a popular phrase or saying.

[MrsORichSenior]

Okay - I'll add my thoughts to this discussion ......... Pressure !
In May 2017 30-year-old Everton winger Aaron Lennon (yes our prodigy) was detained under the Mental Health Act after police became concerned for his welfare on a busy road in Salford. He is currently receiving treatment in hospital for a stress-related disorder. He has no previous history with mental illness. According to the Professional Footballers' Association, the number of players seeking support for mental health issues is soaring - last year 165 members contacted the PFA, resulting in 655 counselling sessions. These numbers have been rising since the support service was launched in 2012...........
...............Chris Kirkland this season hung up his gloves aged 36 with serious diagnosis of depression............

............ Clark Carlisle ended up in the same unit as my daughter in York .........Jonny wilkinson English rugby union player had a career blighted by depression.
All citing 'pressure' from a young age to 'perform' as the major reason (and in my 25 year old daughters case pressure to get results at work).
The service receives referrals from clubs, concerned partners and the players themselves. Most of those referred show symptoms of depression, stress, anxiety, and issues around anger. The PFA lists anxiety around change - in management, moving teams, stress and insecurity over contracts, pressure surrounding performance and anger and isolation after retirement as the key reasons that a footballer may experience poor mental health. Footballers also inhabit a fiercely competitive environment and perceptions that they are "lucky" to be living a "perfect" life are isolating. Over-investment in performance as an indicator of self-worth leaves players vulnerable to harsh self-criticism and poor self-esteem.

"For footballers in the public eye, who are seen as ‘heroes’ on the field and living charmed lives off it, it is especially hard to reveal the cracks in the façade which, after all, is only a façade," says a therapist Wendy Bristow. "Plus the pressures associated with always having to be a ‘hero’ can deepen those cracks. If one in four of us will experience some mental health issues in our lifetimes, it stands to reason that one in four footballers will too."

Mmmm, food for thought folks - especially those who want require instant 'performances' from inexperienced kids,some new to this country & league and earning big bucks before kicking a ball in the first team.

ALAW

[Jezleeds]

To add to lots of good points already made, there's the one about whether they stop caring - by the time they're playing for the senior team, they are burning money for fun - and consequently playing for England, and the idea of it being special and career-defining, no longer matters.

It's a shame, because all of these points made so far, and mine, of course all should relate to Spanish/German/French/Italian etc players, but they don't seem to, do they? Not maybe the 'getting into first teams at an early age' one, but all the others do. Stress, young players being snapped up by certain clubs (Real, Barca, Bayern etc all do it too) and definitely the idea of making too much money too soon.

What i don't get is when i read scumboy Zlatan's autobiography, he spends the whole first half saying he hated Sweden and everyone in it that wasn't an 'immigrant' like him, and yet he's played out of his skin for that country for the last 15 years - if even someone like him with so much anger 'against' his country can do that, and earn all the money, and have all the stress, and be frozen out when he was younger at Ajax etc, how did he end up being who he is when our lot end up pocketing the cash and going home before the quarter finals?

So is it also something about being English now too?

[MrsORichSenior]

Jez,
Being English of Irish parents and having two elder children that are English & having two younger children basically French there is Defo a difference in English youth persona today.
Eldest son 25 spent 2years in Serbia living in Belgrade enduring Red Star Belgrade home games and boy do the Serbs have a different philosophy....... he's now living in Paris,watched PSG and disenchanted with plastic football fans and now gets the 'Red Star' thing which he fully understands as he's got the 'Leeds thing' in his blood.
Younger son 12 plays once a week for our French town junior club & attends community training with Tours with lots of local kids.
Totally different concept of training to that of England in that education comes first at French clubs and in general most European clubs.
For him it's fun,no pressure from club or parents,no contracts till 16 just school first the club states.Other sports he plays do the same.
From my experience earning a living in Europe whatever wage earned it is a better balanced life than in the UK - so maybe the 'hunger thing' is a point - as I could'nt define what being English is anymore if my kids asked me.My eldest son bemoaned lack of opportunity so maybe that ultimately could be the answer,so give youth a chance BUT look after them as Leeds appear to be doing by bringing 'em through carefully this season.
ALAW
MOT