England youth success

[WTF11]

To add to lots of good points already made, there's the one about whether they stop caring - by the time they're playing for the senior team, they are burning money for fun - and consequently playing for England, and the idea of it being special and career-defining, no longer matters.

It's a shame, because all of these points made so far, and mine, of course all should relate to Spanish/German/French/Italian etc players, but they don't seem to, do they? Not maybe the 'getting into first teams at an early age' one, but all the others do. Stress, young players being snapped up by certain clubs (Real, Barca, Bayern etc all do it too) and definitely the idea of making too much money too soon.

What i don't get is when i read scumboy Zlatan's autobiography, he spends the whole first half saying he hated Sweden and everyone in it that wasn't an 'immigrant' like him, and yet he's played out of his skin for that country for the last 15 years - if even someone like him with so much anger 'against' his country can do that, and earn all the money, and have all the stress, and be frozen out when he was younger at Ajax etc, how did he end up being who he is when our lot end up pocketing the cash and going home before the quarter finals?

So is it also something about being English now too?

Good points Jez, and particularly the observation that all the other "senior" nations ( and qute a few minnows) seem to produce adequate numbers of players capable of competing at national representative level, despite all the acknowledged issues Mrs O refers to. Strange

[whitestomper45]

Think the depression thing is a different discussion as regards players developing their careers. Rugby Union, Cricket have plenty of homegrown players and still the black dog plagues them fields too.

English PL football is the most watched, lucrative league..(the Championship the most exciting). Attracting more and more foriegn investment, ownership and agents with their players.
I remember Citeh being one of the first teams to be happy play on saturday mornings to appease and grow their Asian fanbase. And many teams are striving to find Asian, South American, wherever ...players to stick in team and add to their global branding.

Young players are probably led by poor advice to sit on the bench, couch on a saturday rather than try overseas.
There should be a limit to how many players a club can sign/loan out. The tp teams just hoover up potential. The league cup should have a 50% homegrown rule ...

[sam11]

The poor advice thing is pertinent I feel. I think they're led by poor advice professionally but not financially.
Byram and Taylor (same agent) for example. Now I'm not saying (as many did) that they'd be off to the world cup next summer but purely for their careers they should have stayed right where they were, getting regular football and developing and improving.
Expecting them to go a burn up the premier league was, frankly, silly. I know it happens and some surprise you but neither were even nailed on to get in our side.
We all know the reason they left, because, as (i think it was our ex-chief exec) one of our board members said, they've secured the future of their families for the next generation and probably the one after that too, despite the fact that they're likely to spend their best years stagnating and sitting on the bench, at best, of bottom half premier league teams, getting the odd League Cup run out and getting a chasing from a championship reserves winger (Hadi Sacko v Charlie Taylor anybody?)
Now THAT, my friends, is why our natonal team struggle. (That's relative, of course. We don't "struggle" when compared with the other home nations).

[MrsORichSenior]

Sam - How would a player test himself development wise by not moving up via levels ?

WS - Mental development & psychological preparation is also a vast part of becoming an all round player to surely as indeed is discipline off the field with how younger players handle their social life's...............

Ronaldo Vieira came over to England with his parents to progress,failed at 'Udders and Man City,ended up in York to brush up his education via college in York and was developed by i2i private coaching Agency (basically Agents) and has turned out a good 'un thus why I mentioned above points for consideration.
Correct advice & handling of young pro's appears to not always be the case as it's easier to buy cheap abroad for quick fix and i2i York also find rejected young English pro's clubs abroad to resurrect footie careers or help them change careers paths - seen a few around music employment,so clubs still must learn development wise IMO.
MOT

[sam11]

Sam - How would a player test himself development wise by not moving up via levels ?

WS - Mental development & psychological preparation is also a vast part of becoming an all round player to surely as indeed is discipline off the field with how younger players handle their social life's...............

Ronaldo Vieira came over to England with his parents to progress,failed at 'Udders and Man City,ended up in York to brush up his education via college in York and was developed by i2i private coaching Agency (basically Agents) and has turned out a good 'un thus why I mentioned above points for consideration.
Correct advice & handling of young pro's appears to not always be the case as it's easier to buy cheap abroad for quick fix and i2i York also find rejected young English pro's clubs abroad to resurrect footie careers or help them change careers paths - seen a few around music employment,so clubs still must learn development wise IMO.
MOT

It's fine "moving up a level" if you're good enough. ie Chris Wood. But these days the prem teams buy up any above average championship players just to replenish their 40 player strong squads. As any manager worth his salt at any other level would say (and many of ours have done) they're only interested in buying better than they already have (unless under 20, obviously). West Ham, and even little clubs like Burnley, are not doing that.
Again, decent championship players but no way are they top class, which you need to be to get a regular game in the Premier League nowadays.

[whitestomper45]

Sam - How would a player test himself development wise by not moving up via levels ?

WS - Mental development & psychological preparation is also a vast part of becoming an all round player to surely as indeed is discipline off the field with how younger players handle their social life's...............

Ronaldo Vieira came over to England with his parents to progress,failed at 'Udders and Man City,ended up in York to brush up his education via college in York and was developed by i2i private coaching Agency (basically Agents) and has turned out a good 'un thus why I mentioned above points for consideration.
Correct advice & handling of young pro's appears to not always be the case as it's easier to buy cheap abroad for quick fix and i2i York also find rejected young English pro's clubs abroad to resurrect footie careers or help them change careers paths - seen a few around music employment,so clubs still must learn development wise IMO.
MOT

Agree Mrs O, but depression affects all sports and general life. I don't see it as a unique reason why we have a diminishing pool of young players getting through the ranks.

Foreign owners taking over clubs, better work ethic supposedly, more value for money? Mostly Foreign managers and improved global scouting networks.
The money and pressure of the PL and Championship means many managers are loathe to throw in kids less as with Rashford there is some injury crisis going on. Also the Manager is likely on a 1-3 year deal, it doesn't lend itself to bringing on the youth.
The value for money thing, can't understand why clubs, agents, players allow such a disparity...then you have the "cheaper" Africans who will be missing for 6 weeks at least every season with the African Cup. Their needs to be some sort of quotas based on if not nationality at least youth academy development.

[MrsORichSenior]

Agree Mrs O, but depression affects all sports and general life. I don't see it as a unique reason why we have a diminishing pool of young players getting through the ranks.

Foreign owners taking over clubs, better work ethic supposedly, more value for money? Mostly Foreign managers and improved global scouting networks.
The money and pressure of the PL and Championship means many managers are loathe to throw in kids less as with Rashford there is some injury crisis going on. Also the Manager is likely on a 1-3 year deal, it doesn't lend itself to bringing on the youth.
The value for money thing, can't understand why clubs, agents, players allow such a disparity...then you have the "cheaper" Africans who will be missing for 6 weeks at least every season with the African Cup. Their needs to be some sort of quotas based on if not nationality at least youth academy development.

WS - All fair points but depression was just one issue of Mental Healths varying difficulties noted,anxiety was another of many differing symptoms diagnosed in the game.Pressure creates many problems to individuals sadly but footballers are human too and need handling better.

The continental type players don't tend to get into trouble like British players,indeed I remarked the other day on here that some of the Leeds imports were enjoying coffee and signing autographs in town.PL clubs like Arsenal only appear to have problems with young English starlets boozing,clubbing & bedding anything in a skirt which is the view Europeans have of all British kids in general which raises the question,Why ? As an Agent in music I have a responsibility to look after a client end of via a Duty of Care and believe it or not 'some' football agents act likewise.Things are changing slowly and that's why I mentioned the newer approach of Agencies like i2i which Leeds use and have done for many years in the companies earlier format producing the likes of Byram,Taylor ............

http://www.i2isportsagency.com As Agents

http://www.i2ifootballacademy.com/about.html As an Academy
MOT,Stomper. 👍

[sam11]

WS - All fair points but depression was just one issue of Mental Healths varying difficulties noted,anxiety was another of many differing symptoms diagnosed in the game.Pressure creates many problems to individuals sadly but footballers are human too and need handling better.

The continental type players don't tend to get into trouble like British players,indeed I remarked the other day on here that some of the Leeds imports were enjoying coffee and signing autographs in town.PL clubs like Arsenal only appear to have problems with young English starlets boozing,clubbing & bedding anything in a skirt which is the view Europeans have of all British kids in general which raises the question,Why ? As an Agent in music I have a responsibility to look after a client end of via a Duty of Care and believe it or not 'some' football agents act likewise.Things are changing slowly and that's why I mentioned the newer approach of Agencies like i2i which Leeds use and have done for many years in the companies earlier format producing the likes of Byram,Taylor ............

http://www.i2isportsagency.com As Agents

http://www.i2ifootballacademy.com/about.html As an Academy
MOT,Stomper. 👍

Indeed. i2i are a credit to our game. Interested in developing players not just on ££. If you develop and are looked after properly the £ will follow anyway. This is why Ronny has a long term deal at a club where he can feature regularly and some of our recent departures haven't