will be interesting to see

[HughieG]

Rafa is covering his own arse whilst also making it all about him. Cake and eat it both ways.

He's liable to walk in January if he doesn't get what he wants and he'll cite being lied to or not getting what he was promised.
He's almost lost this entire squad as far s I'm concerned.
It wouldn't surprise me if the players want a change.

If I had my way I'd get rid of him now whilst there's still a chance of getting the best out of what we've got, because Rafa certainly isn't.
He's on a sickening contract, he's almost a mercenary.

Wow, we are really not on the same page here. Before the season began, would you have expected - in a justifiable way - that we would be anywhere else than where we are in the table? What other manager, world-class or not, do you think could've done a lot better with this budget in this market and with that squad? Give me a name if you can think of one - pboro can't.

I don't agree with all of Rafael's tactical dispositions, not at all. Why Mitrovic hasn't been given more chances is simply beyond me when we're not winning games. And the defensive system isn't quite working right now. It did to begin with though. And until we get better players, I can't blame Rafa for our current tactics. Especially not when we actually gave Chelsea a good fight. Gives me hope.

Also, a mercenary? C'mon man Ghost, you're better than that.

[ashingtoon62]

Whilst I cant agree with peterwolf on everything.
I honestly think if there wasn't a takeover in the offing/Rafa wasn't on a mega contract,he would be getting the heave-ho about now...

[pboromag]

And rightly so
people keep saying we are where they expected us to be
a fair comment if you aimed low
but did you expect us to be where weare playing so bad and conceeding as many as we have been whilst showing little fight cohesion or strategy

we are getting thumper in most games

no one was expecting that

not under a world class manager like rafa

and he isnt showing me any thing that could suggest he can turn it around

he cant even get a decent game out of his players

they have no fight
they have no direction
they have no idea
they have no leader

[pboromag]

wow, we are really not on the same page here. Before the season began, would you have expected - in a justifiable way - that we would be anywhere else than where we are in the table? What other manager, world-class or not, do you think could've done a lot better with this budget in this market and with that squad? Give me a name if you can think of one - pboro can't.

I don't agree with all of rafael's tactical dispositions, not at all. Why mitrovic hasn't been given more chances is simply beyond me when we're not winning games. And the defensive system isn't quite working right now. It did to begin with though. And until we get better players, i can't blame rafa for our current tactics. Especially not when we actually gave chelsea a good fight. Gives me hope.

Also, a mercenary? C'mon man ghost, you're better than that.

he is a mercenary
he wouldnt have joined us if the money hadnt been right
every argument he has with ash is money based

would he have joined us for 2 mill a year
would he phuck
i can gaurantee you he didnt even start talking to the club untill they agreed to his wages and bonuses

he sold his soul to ashlys millions

[HughieG]

he is a mercenary
he wouldnt have joined us if the money hadnt been right
every argument he has with ash is money based

would he have joined us for 2 mill a year
would he phuck
i can gaurantee you he didnt even start talking to the club untill they agreed to his wages and bonuses

he sold his soul to ashlys millions

What else would he be talking to Ashley about? Gardening?

Btw, you're wrong when you say Liverpool don't want him back. Many fans feel he would be better for them than Klopp at the moment. He is a legend there, so watch your filthy mouth.

[pboromag]

klopp over rafa
really



neither can sort a defence out
but at least klippity gets them attacking

and plays his best platers

[HughieG]

klopp over rafa
really

Nope. The other way around silly.

[ghostrider]

Why do I always get depressed after your comments..... ?

I'm not exactly over the moon to be making them but I have to be true to myself as to how i really see things.
I hope I'm a misery and I'm being one for no reason but I don't see any good in what's going on. I see turmoil.

[ghostrider]

Wow, we are really not on the same page here. Before the season began, would you have expected - in a justifiable way - that we would be anywhere else than where we are in the table?

With what he bought and the way I believed he would set us up, I expected some decent football on a regular basis and also a good ratio of points to be in a better position than we are but not in such a away as to be looking much further than about 12th to 10th which I genuinely believe this team would have been capable of and actually is if set out correctly.

However I would also settle for avoiding relegation but doing so by playing the best available team and giving teams a real fight and not just by slogging at the wrong end...organised or not.

What other manager, world-class or not, do you think could've done a lot better with this budget in this market and with that squad?

Seriously? 90% of them in that premier league.
Try not to forget the money he's had to spend.
It's easy to argue about "ohhh but they were just championship buys."
Honest mate you don't spend 80 million on championship buys. You spend it to add a bit of bite to the fight in the championship and also to fight on a higher level.
He had that and has it.
He bought badly in many respects with the odd gem in between.
What he didn't do was integrate the players who could add to the buys that were already here.
If players weren't fit and such then he's failed and it's down to him and his coaches.
If the players refused to play then why weren't they fined every week until they sort their heads out?
You see, Rafa and co have at their disposal, a decent enough squad to effect a decent game of football against 75% of teams in terms of going for the win.
The other 25% are there to be battled with as best you can.

Give me a name if you can think of one - pboro can't.

I genuinely think any manager could have got as much if not a hell of a lot more out of those players as it stands.

I don't agree with all of Rafael's tactical dispositions, not at all. Why Mitrovic hasn't been given more chances is simply beyond me when we're not winning games.

I think Benitez is a sulking git. I believe he's so untrusting of certain players that he won't take risks and also any player that knocks on his door to demand to play will be looked on as a trouble maker rather than a player that's itching to play.

That's my best guess opinion on how I see Rafa. I could be wrong but that's how it seems to appear from the best vantage point I have, which is outside trying to look through a dirty old window with sound proofing as a feature.

And the defensive system isn't quite working right now. It did to begin with though.

Did it fully work or were we riding a lot of luck?
Whatever Benitez had in earlier times he's running on gaseous farts in this time, as far as I'm concerned.
I'd honestly take almost any manager in that premier league right now, apart from the one's we've already had at the club with Hughton as an exception just because I respect the bloke.

Am I going overboard? Maybe.....Maybe there's some I wouldn't pick over Benitez if the push came to shove, although off hand I can't quite think of one.

And until we get better players, I can't blame Rafa for our current tactics. Especially not when we actually gave Chelsea a good fight. Gives me hope.

We didn't really give Chelsea a good fight. Chelsea ran us ragged for 70% of the game and we gave them a quick scare then a slogger performance where our organisation looked more like a start of a 3 day round up of cattle in the Australian outback.

Also, a mercenary? C'mon man Ghost, you're better than that.

Take a look at the wages he's on and think about it carefully.

5 million a year and is about the 6th or 7th best paid manager in the premier league even when he was in the championship ..

Does it seem likely that Ashley would pay Rafa 5 million a year and not back him?
Does it seem likely that Rafa knew what he was getting as a starter, a middle and an end package upon getting back into the prem and staying there and then a next season spend?

Rafa's had enough money and I'm 100% sure he'd have been given the funds to add in those times as long as the wage was sensible and the fee wasn't over the odds...which to be fair would be only natural.
He had 45 million to spend plus the 80 the season before.
That's 125 million that he's personally had for his own personal squad additions by HIMSELF, without outside interference.

What's the argument?....."ahhhh but that's an overall spend, it's not a net spend."
It doesn't matter if that's used because the simple thing is he spent that money on HIS players whether it was cash on the hip or goods out that was turned into cash to spend. It all works the same way...it's a spend and it still works out to 125 million like all clubs work.


If anything, Rafa has no excuses as it stands, because most managers don't get the luxury of running the whole show themselves.

[pboromag]

With what he bought and the way I believed he would set us up, I expected some decent football on a regular basis and also a good ratio of points to be in a better position than we are but not in such a away as to be looking much further than about 12th to 10th which I genuinely believe this team would have been capable of and actually is if set out correctly.

However I would also settle for avoiding relegation but doing so by playing the best available team and giving teams a real fight and not just by slogging at the wrong end...organised or not.

Seriously? 90% of them in that premier league.
Try not to forget the money he's had to spend.
It's easy to argue about "ohhh but they were just championship buys."
Honest mate you don't spend 80 million on championship buys. You spend it to add a bit of bite to the fight in the championship and also to fight on a higher level.
He had that and has it.
He bought badly in many respects with the odd gem in between.
What he didn't do was integrate the players who could add to the buys that were already here.
If players weren't fit and such then he's failed and it's down to him and his coaches.
If the players refused to play then why weren't they fined every week until they sort their heads out?
You see, Rafa and co have at their disposal, a decent enough squad to effect a decent game of football against 75% of teams in terms of going for the win.
The other 25% are there to be battled with as best you can.




I genuinely think any manager could have got as much if not a hell of a lot more out of those players as it stands.


I think Benitez is a sulking git. I believe he's so untrusting of certain players that he won't take risks and also any player that knocks on his door to demand to play will be looked on as a trouble maker rather than a player that's itching to play.

That's my best guess opinion on how I see Rafa. I could be wrong but that's how it seems to appear from the best vantage point I have, which is outside trying to look through a dirty old window with sound proofing as a feature.


Did it fully work or were we riding a lot of luck?
Whatever Benitez had in earlier times he's running on gaseous farts in this time, as far as I'm concerned.
I'd honestly take almost any manager in that premier league right now, apart from the one's we've already had at the club with Hughton as an exception just because I respect the bloke.

Am I going overboard? Maybe.....Maybe there's some I wouldn't pick over Benitez if the push came to shove, although off hand I can't quite think of one.



We didn't really give Chelsea a good fight. Chelsea ran us ragged for 70% of the game and we gave them a quick scare then a slogger performance where our organisation looked more like a start of a 3 day round up of cattle in the Australian outback.



Take a look at the wages he's on and think about it carefully.

5 million a year and is about the 6th or 7th best paid manager in the premier league even when he was in the championship ..

Does it seem likely that Ashley would pay Rafa 5 million a year and not back him?
Does it seem likely that Rafa knew what he was getting as a starter, a middle and an end package upon getting back into the prem and staying there and then a next season spend?

Rafa's had enough money and I'm 100% sure he'd have been given the funds to add in those times as long as the wage was sensible and the fee wasn't over the odds...which to be fair would be only natural.
He had 45 million to spend plus the 80 the season before.
That's 125 million that he's personally had for his own personal squad additions by HIMSELF, without outside interference.

What's the argument?....."ahhhh but that's an overall spend, it's not a net spend."
It doesn't matter if that's used because the simple thing is he spent that money on HIS players whether it was cash on the hip or goods out that was turned into cash to spend. It all works the same way...it's a spend and it still works out to 125 million like all clubs work.


If anything, Rafa has no excuses as it stands, because most managers don't get the luxury of running the whole show themselves.

an excellent post
truth is people will keep banging there heads and be scred to say anything against rafa as it aint the norm

why anyone keeps saying know one will come and work for ash is beyond me

he has got some good managers here
he got rafa
he got shearer

im sure if rafa went which i hope he does with 2 more poor rsults we would still get a good manager to take us on
why
because ash pays the going rate for managers
and we are a big club