O/T DUP still not playing ball..

[gm_gm]

So, pleased that you're wanting the minimum wage raised, a la Labour party policy, but please don't be so condescending as to try and deny what damage this gov't, which you fully support, is doing to the poorer sections of society as we speak, the sooner people like you realise what actual damage they're doing in your name the better.

But thats just a supposed difference of political opinion as opposed to common objective. every party supports a rise in the min wage, theres a lot of bullshyte and points scoring...what irks me is the blatant non-compliance with the min wage laws, Shell are up there with the worst (plus they dont pay tax) some companies treat their employees like shyte and pay them peanuts.....this isnt a socialist ideology its down to common decency and lawful integrity, the EU has created a low market economy in areas like ours, it doesn't affect me but i still feel strongly against low wages...and Im a Tory!

[millmoormagic]

But thats just a supposed difference of political opinion as opposed to common objective. every party supports a rise in the min wage, theres a lot of bullshyte and points scoring...what irks me is the blatant non-compliance with the min wage laws, Shell are up there with the worst (plus they dont pay tax) some companies treat their employees like shyte and pay them peanuts.....this isnt a socialist ideology its down to common decency and lawful integrity, the EU has created a low market economy in areas like ours, it doesn't affect me but i still feel strongly against low wages...and Im a Tory!

I admire your support for higher wages, but to chuck all the woes onto the EU is quite frankly ridiculous, this gov't just as the one before it, is activley pursuing the very thing you're accusing the EU of, reductions in workers rights, forcing disabled and ill people off benefits into work, killing some of them, forcing homelessness on thousands through their continuing shocking policies, i could go on and on, if you actually think there's ANY decency within this, or the previous gov't then you're a very blinkered man, alongside many others.

This isn't a differing political opinion, it's fact, the tories are screwing the poorest over in our society while continuing to give tax breaks to the rich, including SHELL, and many other companies dodging tax, absolutely scandalous.

[gm_gm]

I admire your support for higher wages, but to chuck all the woes onto the EU is quite frankly ridiculous, this gov't just as the one before it, is activley pursuing the very thing you're accusing the EU of, reductions in workers rights, forcing disabled and ill people off benefits into work, killing some of them, forcing homelessness on thousands through their continuing shocking policies, i could go on and on, if you actually think there's ANY decency within this, or the previous gov't then you're a very blinkered man, alongside many others.

This isn't a differing political opinion, it's fact, the tories are screwing the poorest over in our society while continuing to give tax breaks to the rich, including SHELL, and many other companies dodging tax, absolutely scandalous.

Would you like to play the prisoner? Its a game theory based on sound economic principles to help understand how things work!

Question..Each person is told that if they both confess to the serious crime they will receive a sentence of 3 years. However, each is also told that if he confesses and his partner does not, then he will get a light sentence of 1 year, and his partner will get 10 years. They know that if they both deny the serious offence they are certain to be found guilty of the lesser offence, and will get a 2 year sentence.

...what would you do MMM?

This is an economic principle based on EU construct of the Oligopoli

[animallittle3]

Between a rock and a hard place are the tory government .

Go against the EU and we leave without a deal .

Go against the DUP and the tory government will collapse in the new year .


The best of it is , it's entirely down to them , only the tories themselves have placed them in this position , from the referendum to last summers snap election .

The last two days only emphasis what a totally weak and clueless PM we have , everything this women touches turns to shyte and that includes her tenure in the home office .


Any forthcoming election campaign will be fought with all these catastrophes still fresh in the minds of the electorate , where do you even start to present that to an electorate and expect them to vote for you in sufficient numbers , two out of the last 3 elections they haven't managed a majority and they weren't anywhere near as tarnished as they are today .

I know the polls are not the greatest guide these days but Corbyn seems to have a lead of between 8 and 12 points , could be higher , could be lower , either way the tories aren't going to win with a majority and there's little hope the DUP will bail them out again .

They really are fecked , I'll drink to that , Cheers !!!

[shshsh22]

Would you like to play the prisoner? Its a game theory based on sound economic principles to help understand how things work!

Question..Each person is told that if they both confess to the serious crime they will receive a sentence of 3 years. However, each is also told that if he confesses and his partner does not, then he will get a light sentence of 1 year, and his partner will get 10 years. They know that if they both deny the serious offence they are certain to be found guilty of the lesser offence, and will get a 2 year sentence.

...what would you do MMM?

This is an economic principle based on EU construct of the Oligopoli

Didnt Jasper Carrot host that,a few years ago?

[animallittle3]

Didnt Jasper Carrot host that,a few years ago?

Hypothetical nonsense mate , no wonder british managers are amongst Europe's worst .

[KerrAvon]

Got to say Labour is split on Brexit. Many Momentum supporters are old Labour anti EU and voted out.

The big split in politics in the UK is around neo liberal economics.

Indeed. Labour declined to put up a spokesperson on the Irish border issue for the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning. They are scared stiff of letting the cat out of the bag that they are as split on Europe as the Tories and have about as much idea of how to deal wih Brexit as the government.

[KerrAvon]

The JRF report clearly states in the first few lines that although poverty rates had dramatically fallen in the last twenty years for certain groups, poverty rates for those groups have started to rise again...

direct quote;

"Over the last 20 years, the UK has dramatically reduced poverty among people who had traditionally been most at risk – pensioners and certain types of families with children. But that progress is beginning to unravel; poverty rates for both groups have started to rise again.

The analysis highlights that the three factors which have led to a fall in poverty and are now under question; state support for many of those on low incomes is falling in real terms, rents are increasing, and rising employment is no longer reducing poverty. As a result, JRF is calling for a national mission to transform the prospects of millions of people living in poverty in the UK.

This is the first report to assess the progress the UK is making in reducing poverty rates and tackling the underlying drivers of poverty since the publication of JRF’s We Can Solve Poverty in the UK in 2016".

Proving that in work poverty is rising, state support for the poorest is falling, proving that this gov't cares only for the rich, and ergo if you support this gov't, you're doing the same Kerr, so don't cherry pick to suit your argument, the fact is that by supporting this gov't you're actively supporting the rise in homelessness, the rise in poverty, the scandalous attack on the country's poorest, well done fella, well done, hope you're mum's proud.

You are missing the point, MMM. Here’s how it went:

1. Post 17 - I pointed out to Roly that it was clear that decades of the 'neo-liberal' policies that are so despised by the new (old) Left delivered constant improvements in poverty levels until the consequences of the 2007/8 crash stopped that
2. Post 23 – Roly appeared to reject that position (although looking at his post again, it is not clear) and asserted that increased levels of poverty have been a long standing issue.
3. Post 26 – I point out to Roly that the JSF report to which you linked confirms that Over the last 20 years, the UK has dramatically reduced poverty among people who had traditionally been most at risk
4. Post 31 – you confirm what I said about the JSF report.

So presumably - if we accept your assertion that the JSF report amounts to proof - we can agree that the neo-liberal policies that the new Left despises have dramatically reduced poverty. Despite that, you support a party that wants to turn the country’s back on those policies in favour of the failed tax, borrow and spend policies of the past.

[KerrAvon]

The rich have never cared about the poor in this country or any other for that matter. The only thing that matters to them is kerching kerching and bling bling. They would happily send poor kids back up chimneys if they could or send ordinary folk off to war as cannon fodder to fight their battles for them. The saddest people are the working class tories who grovel to em and think we should give them some sort of respect. Their are plenty of daft sods who think like that on on here.

It’s something of wild statement to assert that the rich have never cared about the poor. Based upon experience, I agree with gm (there is first time for everything) that right minded people from across the political, economic and social spectrum want to support the vulnerable. The issue is how to achieve that. In broad terms, the Tories are offering a continuation of the neo-liberal policies that, according to the JRF report linked to by MMM, have delivered a dramatic reduction in poverty over the last twenty years, whereas Labour is proposing a return to failed policies of the 70s that resulted in the destruction of wealth and a significant proportion of British industry largely through uncontrolled inflation.

Kerching is necessary in order to create wealth, without which we all sink into poverty.

You need to stand back and take a look at the posts on here. The Tories are sewer rats or daft sods, anybody who isn’t a Labour supporter doesn’t give a sh it that human beings are suffering in this country, the rich don’t care and would happily send children up chimneys. If anyone were to make such wild, unsubstantiated and bigoted comments about anyone from a religious or ethnic background you’d be all over them like a rash and it wouldn’t be long before they were branded as racists or compared to Nazis.

For my part, I fail to see how blind prejudice from the Left is any less acceptable than when it comes from the right.

[rolymiller]

A very bold statement about Neo Liberal policies and reductions in poverty Kerr. Evidence please or is this some sort of Kerr parallel Universe you have been living in.The problem with neo liberalism is that the wealth is meant to trickle down but it never does because of greedy bas tards at the top who would really not like to part with their money.I will give you a good example of how neo liberal policies work. Have a look at the football league pyramid. It is the reason why less wealthy clubs like ourselves will never get in the premier league. Massive Parachute payments to the big wealthy clubs means they will always be rich and wealthy while the poor buggers at the bottom never get on the first rung. You should know that being a millers fan but then again maybe the millers are in the prem in your parallel neo lib universe.