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Thread: O/T DUP still not playing ball..

  1. #91
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    Here's a good one for you millmoor , look whose asked to bail them out ?


    https://www.theguardian.com/business...espite-bailout

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    What proof would you like? Are you disputing the Joseph Rowntree report that MMM linked to? They are a well respected body and the report clearly states that: Over the last 20 years, the UK has dramatically reduced poverty among people who had traditionally been most at risk – pensioners and certain types of families with children. In other words, poverty in this country has been dramatically reduced whilst it was pursuing 'neo- liberal, policies. Are you disputing that assertion and, if so, what proof do you have?

    I don't think that any meaningful parallels cane drawn between football and national economies. It makes no sense to try to do so.

    And what is Labour offering other than policies that have been proven not to work time and time again?

    Kerr: that report concludes that:

    "The prospects for solving UK poverty are worrying. The continuing rise in employment is no longer
    leading to lower poverty. Changes to benefits and tax credits for working-age families are reducing the
    incomes of many of those on low incomes. High housing costs continue to reduce the incomes available
    for those in poverty to meet other needs. Inflation is rising and is higher for those on lower incomes
    than for better-off groups. This squeeze on living standards is also storing up problems for the future;
    a fifth of people on low incomes have ‘problem debt’; most are not building up a pension; the decreasing
    proportion of the working-age population buying their own home means that in the future more older
    people are likely to rent and have higher housing costs in retirement.

    The UK has seen considerable success in improving skills and increasing employment. However, the
    majority of young people from disadvantaged backgrounds still do not achieve five good GCSEs and there
    is still a group of adults with no or low qualifications who are at an increasing disadvantage in the labour
    market. Part-time workers are particularly vulnerable to poverty, with a poverty rate more than twice as
    high as full-time workers, and qualifications are far less effective in improving their pay prospects than
    for full-time workers.

    The impact of poverty on physical and mental health and on relationships within families add to the
    disadvantages facing those living on low incomes. Enabling those in poverty to improve their incomes
    and reduce their costs, as well as addressing the negative impacts of low incomes, would help to prevent
    future poverty".

    I guess you can look at this conclusion in two ways: you can focus on the sentence in the middle paragraph about the "considerable success in increasing skills and increasing employment" but the rest of the conclusion reads to me as a damning assessment of the politics you promote.

    Anyhow, we could go round the houses again; you could produce X report, I could produce Y report etc. Clearly, both the left and right can produce ample evidence from academics and economists to back up their theories. And I have read and taken on board the reports and arguments you put forward. Only a blind fool would not take counter arguments seriously in my opinion, on both sides.

    So where else can we look to get a sense of where we are nationally? Is it fair to look at our own lives and environment we live in?

    My work. Working in a publicly funded college in the FE sector, we have faced repeated cuts to funding and have to constantly rethink how we allocate resources to support our students. A new initiative this year is effectively zero hours contracts for learning support staff, who we can now only pay related to when we get funding from the learner's local authority, and if a funded learner drops out, that member of staff is immediately out of work. Some of these guys have families to support. I HATE this situation, it goes against all what I went into higher management to do - but it is forced upon us by successive cuts to funding

    My College Bobby: Yes, in this part of London, we have an allocated community policeman attached to our school whom we work with to both protect vulnerable learners and liaise with on the PREVENT strategy. He, as is most bobbies, a quite conservative person but even he is sickened by the repeated cuts to police services that in his opinion and mine, stretch services to the community (crucial PREVENT operations being a key one that directly impact on our ability to prevent terrorist activity),

    My Kid's School: Here we now have the sad situation that the next teacher leaving will not be replaced so that we can stay in budget. Same with the next support staff. Instead the kids groups will be merged. The governors are using every initiative to raise funds with regular funding events etc - an extremely inventive school to minimise the damage of successive cuts.

    My Mum's Care: My mum is now 80 years old and lives alone. The NHS, when called upon for care do an incredible job as individuals but she faces long waits for her medical procedures and worst of all, her bus service to her house (at the bottom of a hill in Bramley) has been cut meaning she has to get a taxi to the shops/town when she needs to go. Cuts to services means that she can no longer get home visits to help her around the house.

    My town/your town: I live in East London and even in the 8 years I have lived here, the rise of homeless people on the streets as I walk through has increased hugely. I walked past 4 just in the 400 yards up to the local shops last night. This is a very recent phenomena. My wife has worked for a national homeless charity for a decade until recently, as well as by brother works for an alcoholics shelter in Rotherham and niece for a Sheffield charity that aims to support rehabilitation of prostitutes - both of these, none of which were hugely political until recently, tell me of cuts to their services and a co-incidental surge in the number of clients as a result of government benefits 'initiatives'. As the Rowntree report is suggesting there is a worrying downturn in poverty in recent years that is showing every sign of getting worse. I haven't had any direct contact with foodbanks but wouldn't you agree that the presence of two food bank centres operating 4 days a week, paid for entirely by voluntary donations with nothing from Government is pretty damning of our culture, if Rotherham is reflective of similar towns?

    There are other aspects of my life/environment I could discuss but this post is way too long already!

    So to you: is your life affected by such issues with public services?:

    - is your work affected by public funding? How are you finding it if so?
    - do you have kids in school? How are you finding the school services? Any cuts affect you here?
    - do you have elderly family or any family in need of NHS or social care?
    - do you have any family affected by zero hours contracts or in need of charity support?
    - as you walk down the street in your town, do you notice the increase in homeless people? Do you ever speak to them?

    So let's leave out the links to reports - tell me a bit about your experience with the above.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Kerr: that report concludes that:

    "The prospects for solving UK poverty are worrying. The continuing rise in employment is no longer
    leading to lower poverty. Changes to benefits and tax credits for working-age families are reducing the
    incomes of many of those on low incomes. High housing costs continue to reduce the incomes available
    for those in poverty to meet other needs. Inflation is rising and is higher for those on lower incomes
    than for better-off groups. This squeeze on living standards is also storing up problems for the future;
    a fifth of people on low incomes have ‘problem debt’; most are not building up a pension; the decreasing
    proportion of the working-age population buying their own home means that in the future more older
    people are likely to rent and have higher housing costs in retirement.

    The UK has seen considerable success in improving skills and increasing employment. However, the
    majority of young people from disadvantaged backgrounds still do not achieve five good GCSEs and there
    is still a group of adults with no or low qualifications who are at an increasing disadvantage in the labour
    market. Part-time workers are particularly vulnerable to poverty, with a poverty rate more than twice as
    high as full-time workers, and qualifications are far less effective in improving their pay prospects than
    for full-time workers.

    The impact of poverty on physical and mental health and on relationships within families add to the
    disadvantages facing those living on low incomes. Enabling those in poverty to improve their incomes
    and reduce their costs, as well as addressing the negative impacts of low incomes, would help to prevent
    future poverty".

    I guess you can look at this conclusion in two ways: you can focus on the sentence in the middle paragraph about the "considerable success in increasing skills and increasing employment" but the rest of the conclusion reads to me as a damning assessment of the politics you promote.

    Anyhow, we could go round the houses again; you could produce X report, I could produce Y report etc. Clearly, both the left and right can produce ample evidence from academics and economists to back up their theories. And I have read and taken on board the reports and arguments you put forward. Only a blind fool would not take counter arguments seriously in my opinion, on both sides.

    So where else can we look to get a sense of where we are nationally? Is it fair to look at our own lives and environment we live in?

    My work. Working in a publicly funded college in the FE sector, we have faced repeated cuts to funding and have to constantly rethink how we allocate resources to support our students. A new initiative this year is effectively zero hours contracts for learning support staff, who we can now only pay related to when we get funding from the learner's local authority, and if a funded learner drops out, that member of staff is immediately out of work. Some of these guys have families to support. I HATE this situation, it goes against all what I went into higher management to do - but it is forced upon us by successive cuts to funding

    My College Bobby: Yes, in this part of London, we have an allocated community policeman attached to our school whom we work with to both protect vulnerable learners and liaise with on the PREVENT strategy. He, as is most bobbies, a quite conservative person but even he is sickened by the repeated cuts to police services that in his opinion and mine, stretch services to the community (crucial PREVENT operations being a key one that directly impact on our ability to prevent terrorist activity),

    My Kid's School: Here we now have the sad situation that the next teacher leaving will not be replaced so that we can stay in budget. Same with the next support staff. Instead the kids groups will be merged. The governors are using every initiative to raise funds with regular funding events etc - an extremely inventive school to minimise the damage of successive cuts.

    My Mum's Care: My mum is now 80 years old and lives alone. The NHS, when called upon for care do an incredible job as individuals but she faces long waits for her medical procedures and worst of all, her bus service to her house (at the bottom of a hill in Bramley) has been cut meaning she has to get a taxi to the shops/town when she needs to go. Cuts to services means that she can no longer get home visits to help her around the house.

    My town/your town: I live in East London and even in the 8 years I have lived here, the rise of homeless people on the streets as I walk through has increased hugely. I walked past 4 just in the 400 yards up to the local shops last night. This is a very recent phenomena. My wife has worked for a national homeless charity for a decade until recently, as well as by brother works for an alcoholics shelter in Rotherham and niece for a Sheffield charity that aims to support rehabilitation of prostitutes - both of these, none of which were hugely political until recently, tell me of cuts to their services and a co-incidental surge in the number of clients as a result of government benefits 'initiatives'. As the Rowntree report is suggesting there is a worrying downturn in poverty in recent years that is showing every sign of getting worse. I haven't had any direct contact with foodbanks but wouldn't you agree that the presence of two food bank centres operating 4 days a week, paid for entirely by voluntary donations with nothing from Government is pretty damning of our culture, if Rotherham is reflective of similar towns?

    There are other aspects of my life/environment I could discuss but this post is way too long already!

    So to you: is your life affected by such issues with public services?:

    - is your work affected by public funding? How are you finding it if so?
    - do you have kids in school? How are you finding the school services? Any cuts affect you here?
    - do you have elderly family or any family in need of NHS or social care?
    - do you have any family affected by zero hours contracts or in need of charity support?
    - as you walk down the street in your town, do you notice the increase in homeless people? Do you ever speak to them?

    So let's leave out the links to reports - tell me a bit about your experience with the above.

    There are many injustices in the UK and we as a nation have lots if things we have to fix.

    A Corbyn administration though wouldn't be the necessary fix. It's more likely that under that scenario matters could get a hell of a lot worse.

    The rich will always find ways to protect their wealth and the poorest will still get the rough end of the stick.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grist_To_The_Mill View Post
    There are many injustices in the UK and we as a nation have lots if things we have to fix.

    A Corbyn administration though wouldn't be the necessary fix. It's more likely that under that scenario matters could get a hell of a lot worse.

    The rich will always find ways to protect their wealth and the poorest will still get the rough end of the stick.
    You are as deluded as the rest fella, absolutely blinded by your (groomed) opinion of Corbyn, it's folk just like you allowing this crap to continue, British people, being forced onto the streets, by British people blinded by a media machine designed to do so, it's pathetic.

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by millmoormagic View Post
    You are as deluded as the rest fella, absolutely blinded by your (groomed) opinion of Corbyn, it's folk just like you allowing this crap to continue, British people, being forced onto the streets, by British people blinded by a media machine designed to do so, it's pathetic.
    As King of being pathetic I bow to your superior knowledge.

    Roll on the revolution comrades.

    Tax the rich

    Power to the people.

    Maggie Out

    FFS move on it's 2017 not 1977

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grist_To_The_Mill View Post
    As King of being pathetic I bow to your superior knowledge.

    Roll on the revolution comrades.

    Tax the rich

    Power to the people.

    Maggie Out

    FFS move on it's 2017 not 1977
    It certainly is 2017, and the country has gone, and is continuing to go backwards at a rapid rate, something you and your ilk either;

    1. Cannot see it happening.
    2. Are ignorant to it happening
    3. Don't care because 'you're alright, jack'

    Which number are you i wonder?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grist_To_The_Mill View Post
    As King of being pathetic I bow to your superior knowledge.

    Roll on the revolution comrades.

    Tax the rich

    Power to the people.

    Maggie Out

    FFS move on it's 2017 not 1977
    The thing is Grist the calendar may tell you it's 2017 but life for many people resembles more like a hundred years ago .

    As pups pointed out I've seen a huge increase in homelessness in Barnsley town centre , you always encountered the odd tramp here and there but I'm seeing a very serious problem today and one that should shame governments .

    Walking into town from work about a month back around 10pm I asked a young lad sat with a sleeping bag around him if he wanted a coffee and something to eat , I wasn't going to give him money in case it went on let's say something else .

    He accepted of course and I asked him how he ended up on the street , he was 18 years old and his mothers partner had kicked him out .

    He'd had a job on a ZHC but they kept cutting his hours back , ringing up for him to come in at a drop of a hat , they sacked him when he said he couldn't come in due to finding himself homeless , he hadn't any money due to the universal credit fiasco or maybe he's not entitled to anything for all I know .

    It only took one thing for his life to go into meltdown because the safety net doesn't exist in his case and he's not alone either .

    What happens to him now is anyone's guess , the lad needs to catch a break and in his words " I cant seem to get out of this situation "

    It will probably be left to a charity organisation to turn it around , funded by donations from people like us , the government clearly aren't interested .

    This is probably music to a neoliberal government , they neither carry any responsibility or intend providing the funds to turn this lads life around for the better , it's left to our charitable nature .

    Just like it was in Victorian times and work houses .

    2017 indeed .
    Last edited by animallittle3; 07-12-2017 at 01:04 PM.

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by animallittle3 View Post
    The thing is Grist the calendar may tell you it's 2017 but life for many people resembles more like a hundred years ago .

    As pups pointed out I've seen a huge increase in homelessness in Barnsley town centre , you always encountered the odd tramp here and there but I'm seeing a very serious problem today and one that should shame governments .

    Walking into town from work about a month back around 10pm I asked a young lad sat with a sleeping bag around him if he wanted a coffee and something to eat , I wasn't going to give him money in case it went on let's say something else .

    He accepted of course and I asked him how he ended up on the street , he was 18 years old and his mothers partner had kicked him out .

    He'd had a job on a ZHC but they kept cutting his hours back , ringing up for him to come in at a drop of a hat , they sacked him when he said he couldn't come in due to finding himself homeless , he hadn't any money due to the universal credit fiasco or maybe he's not entitled to anything for all I know .

    It only took one thing for his life to go into meltdown because the safety net doesn't exist in his case and he's not alone either .

    What happens to him now is anyone's guess , the lad needs to catch a break and in his words " I cant seem to get out of this situation "

    It will probably be left to a charity organisation to turn it around , funded by donations from people like us , the government clearly aren't interested .

    This is probably music to a neoliberal government , they neither carry any responsibility or intend providing the funds to turn this lads life around for the better , it's left to our charitable nature .

    Just like it was in Victorian times and work houses .

    2017 indeed .
    A nice reasoned response (different from daft replies we see from one other Corbyn supporter).

    It's obviously a situation that folks see differently. A bit like asking a potato if it wants to be chipped or mashed.

    Things are bad but there's a big chance that a Corbyn government would sink the already waterlogged boat.

    Not ideal but I believe what we have now is the best of a very bad lot.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grist_To_The_Mill View Post
    There are many injustices in the UK and we as a nation have lots if things we have to fix.



    The rich will always find ways to protect their wealth and the poorest will still get the rough end of the stick.
    Good observation, I almost saw a heart there Grist..your a big softy really aren't ya?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grist_To_The_Mill View Post
    A nice reasoned response (different from daft replies we see from one other Corbyn supporter).

    It's obviously a situation that folks see differently. A bit like asking a potato if it wants to be chipped or mashed.

    Things are bad but there's a big chance that a Corbyn government would sink the already waterlogged boat.

    Not ideal but I believe what we have now is the best of a very bad lot.
    Yep, very reasoned, and you usually read stuff through those daft lensed specs fella, the fact you have mentioned there that this shower is the "best of a very bad lot" shows your utter ignorance of what's really happening in the country, once again, pathetic.

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