Chesterfield game - stay or sack for manager

[alexmick]

You are absolutely correct about the 1960's and the attitude of the players back then, Mike. Different times though. Welsh _ Cup was also correct about our dismal re-election years, which mainly ruined the 1970s for the club. However, it was Dario who came along and did save us from oblivion and certain relegation out of the Football League. As for the academy, I see it as an important part of the club in the way of player development, although I do think that it should be scaled down somewhat. Times have changed and with the wealth of those PL clubs, neither can we attract the same quality of youngster, nor can we keep them on board when they do fulfil their potential.

[MikeSB]

You are absolutely correct about the 1960's and the attitude of the players back then, Mike. Different times though. Welsh _ Cup was also correct about our dismal re-election years, which mainly ruined the 1970s for the club. However, it was Dario who came along and did save us from oblivion and certain relegation out of the Football League. As for the academy, I see it as an important part of the club in the way of player development, although I do think that it should be scaled down somewhat. Times have changed and with the wealth of those PL clubs, neither can we attract the same quality of youngster, nor can we keep them on board when they do fulfil their potential.

Yes Mick, times change and for many football fans, not for the better. I still don't think we faced oblivion though. Lots of clubs our size are in L1 and L2 and yes some in the National League where some of the gates are higher because they have more local derbies. So its just my opinion that non league is not the end of the world or the club. Every single club both league and non league have an academy of sorts where local kids get a chance to show any natural ability and so even the lowest tier of academy would be just fine. I am willing to be proved wrong when you say 'attracting' the same quality of youngster? But can ANYBODY advise of ANY 'local' kid where his parents have taken them to a PL academy and where another kid from OUTSIDE the local area has come here say from Macclesfield, Port Vale, Shrewsbury, Wrexham and some could argue they are even within our local area but the point and question still stands as I don't think there are many if any at all. But someone may know of one or two to prove your point Mick.

I know personally of one local lad that was highly rated went to our academy for some years and his Father told me he or his wife couldn't have taken him further afield as they both had jobs and found it hard to take him even locally and so I just cannot see that being much different anywhere else UNLESS they are really something special and then they would be whisked off sooner rather than later. I know some late ****agers did go to Liverpool one time but that was some while ago and think they were not kids though and about to sign contracts.

The other problem is as we are seeing is some players that have come through the academy refusing to sign extensions and that is disgusting to my mind anyway having had millions spent on them collectively...

I do wonder if the board has been to swayed by Dario though and we really shouldn't have gone with Cat 2 but Cat 3 like most others did and some now have even abandoned that idea....Cat 3 about 150 grand, Cat2 three quarters of a million...Take your pick!

[thnhouse]

I love that a “relatively successful” period in a 100 years worth of nothingness is seen as more of a example of how to do things than the actual most successful time in the clubs history. Isn’t nostalgia fun. Maybe we should stick with the WM formation that got us to the cup Semi Final in the 1800’s ?

[MikeSB]

I love that a “relatively successful” period in a 100 years worth of nothingness is seen as more of a example of how to do things than the actual most successful time in the clubs history. Isn’t nostalgia fun. Maybe we should stick with the WM formation that got us to the cup Semi Final in the 1800’s ?

Yes it is and you may wish to check the gates we had over that period too....

The club was NOT founded when Gradi arrived no matter how many say we would have folded without him or indeed the academy comes first before the first team. That shows real ignorance about what REAL fans think of that rubbish statement. AlexMick has shown there were some successful times in that previous period. 20,000 fans in Gresty Road. Beat that if you can mate! We beat Chelsea away in the FA cup that has never been achieved under the Dario era.

Football was more enjoyable back then before the prima donnas arrived..

Oh, who was the clubs MOST successful Centre Forward we had that scored the most hat tricks and not a coaching lesson in his life! Frank Lord, take a bow from heaven son! If anyone saw him they would not be so coy with their comments about the history of this club..

BTW, can you try and persuade some of our academy graduates to sign contracts to repay all that coaching they had? Or are they too big for this club?

[out0lunch]

Frank was one of our best forwards but Mick are you telling me he wasted his time when he stopped playing and was a coach at Crystal Palace and Preston?

[MikeSB]

Frank was one of our best forwards but Mick are you telling me he wasted his time when he stopped playing and was a coach at Crystal Palace and Preston?

I bow to your knowledge as what happened to Frank Lord when he left us....

Was there such a thing as 'coaches' back then? Even assistant managers seemed a rarity and think again from memory we only had a manager and a trainer and that was it and so unlike all the massive backroom teams they have now and its a matter of opinion if you think the football as improved? I ask myself if our academy costs over one million pounds a season then where is the money going if the academy lads are getting nothing apart from when they are offered contracts at 17 which again is reported to be quite low? I still think that is far too much for a club our size and probably less than our income from the gates? OK do the maths, average 4K gate and 23 home games that is 92K attendance multiplied by the cost per fan at the gate and season tickets and concessions so can we say average 15 pounds per fan? Probably less but that would be about 1.4 million and that has to pay for the players wages, the shop, ground staff and maintenance, heating and electricity, national insurance and stewards and bar staff plus takings there and of course the FA top all that up but its probable that the gate money alone does not pay its way if we have to contribute 760 grand to the academy as well? So we can't afford a Cat 2 academy without biggish sales and the board obviously knows all that and why the playing budget is so tight.

I may have missed something there and so add on or delete as appropriate.

Of course it's all about or should be whether fans enjoy the football over the various decades and now and whether its value for money? I suspect we enjoy it more when young and not so much when we get older but others can add to that if they wish?

[out0lunch]

I bow to your knowledge as what happened to Frank Lord when he left us....

Was there such a thing as 'coaches' back then? Even assistant managers seemed a rarity and think again from memory we only had a manager and a trainer and that was it and so unlike all the massive backroom teams they have now and its a matter of opinion if you think the football as improved? I ask myself if our academy costs over one million pounds a season then where is the money going if the academy lads are getting nothing apart from when they are offered contracts at 17 which again is reported to be quite low? I still think that is far too much for a club our size and probably less than our income from the gates? OK do the maths, average 4K gate and 23 home games that is 92K attendance multiplied by the cost per fan at the gate and season tickets and concessions so can we say average 15 pounds per fan? Probably less but that would be about 1.4 million and that has to pay for the players wages, the shop, ground staff and maintenance, heating and electricity, national insurance and stewards and bar staff plus takings there and of course the FA top all that up but its probable that the gate money alone does not pay its way if we have to contribute 760 grand to the academy as well? So we can't afford a Cat 2 academy without biggish sales and the board obviously knows all that and why the playing budget is so tight.

I may have missed something there and so add on or delete as appropriate.

Of course it's all about or should be whether fans enjoy the football over the various decades and now and whether its value for money? I suspect we enjoy it more when young and not so much when we get older but others can add to that if they wish?

You missed a big factor the £500,000 we are given to run the academy !!!

[alexmick]

I love that a “relatively successful” period in a 100 years worth of nothingness is seen as more of a example of how to do things than the actual most successful time in the clubs history. Isn’t nostalgia fun. Maybe we should stick with the WM formation that got us to the cup Semi Final in the 1800’s ?

I don't really understand what your point is here, thnhouse. I was merely correcting Welsh _ Cup in my initial statement, to say that we spent more than just one season outside the bottom tier, prior to the arrival of Dario. I also went on to say that that decade was a "reasonably" successful period in the club's history. That fact is true and I did witness those exciting times. I am not saying at all that the period of time from the late 1980's until about 2005, under Dario was not also successful. It was a fantastic achievement and put the club on the football map. Nothing wrong in nostalgia surely? Part of living through history I would say. Just a thought. Did you actually witness those good times during the 1960s and the awful seasons we all endured from 1970-1983?