If we had a goalscorer we would be top 10

[Kal]

rafa brought him as a striker

Aye, why with tens of millions at his disposal, did Rafa wait until the day before the season starts to spend just £5 million on Joselu ?

[HughieG]

I'd rather not be having any digs at Rafa and that's the truth.
I'd love Rafa to give me no reason to have a pop and will give credit to him when it's due, which I have...albeit not anywhere near where I'd like to be in the credit giving stakes.

I'd simply like fans to be totally honest with themselves and admit that, if Rafa wasn't the manager and it was someone like Gary Monk or even Eddie Howe, or Claude Puel (add in any other non messiah like world class managers) who had done exactly what Rafa had done from taking us down (not his fault in the main) to getting us back up as champions with the buys he made himself, to this very point.....I guarantee the fans, in the main would be clamouring for his head on top of the usual Ashley out banners.


There would be no flags with managers faces on.
Basically anyone of those would be getting crucified for doing exactly what Rafa is doing and has done.

People are free to deny it if they wish but that's my absolute honest belief of what would really be happening at this point and well before it.

This is mostly Stockholm syndrome with Rafa.

Seriously though, it is. It's a case of fans feeling like it's a privilege to even have Rafa Benitez just being manager of Newcastle United and everything else can be forsaken.

See, I largely disagree with you there. I do think it's a privilege to have him here. In a way, one'd be mad not to when you look at his career and then think of where were when he joined us. So his mere presence has given us hope. You can't say that about Carver, McClaren or Pardew - even though I fully acknowledge that Pardew did some decent work occasionally when he was here.

We, as fans of NUFC, are always being made fun of by pundits, "experts" and fans of other clubs for getting on the back of our managers too soon and for being deluded. It bothers me that now that we have a manager whom we know what stands for, sees the potential in the club and has stayed on even though he's been f*cked over, some fans insist on not supporting him as we are going through a rough patch. Can't we get behind the manager, now that we have one with a very good track record?

The main reason we are going through a rough patch is Mike Ashley, not Rafael Benitez. That doesn't mean he's blameless. And I do think fans would have lost patience had it been someone else - like you say Ghost - but that's irrelevant to me; knowing he has brought success in the past is a good enough reason for us fans to have patience and give him time (and money!) to do what we know he can.

The way I see it, Rafa's not at all immune to criticism. Most managers are questioned over their abilities week in week out. I have my doubts about his substitutions in matches (generally) and I think he's underestimating our ability to hang on to a lead. But those are not major issues for me right now. The key thing is the long run and what Rafa can do here if he's allowed to do it.

I, for one, am happy not to see "RAFA OUT"-flags all around the ground. I don't think it would make sense, and I'm happy that the fans - generally speaking - are getting behind our manager, even if he is defensive-minded etc.

[pboromag]

Aye, why with tens of millions at his disposal, did Rafa wait until the day before the season starts to spend just £5 million on Joselu ?

why waist any millions mill on him and not bring mistertrick through or even armstrong
surely given time both are or would be better than joselwho and use the money and wages to get a loan plyer at the time

[pboromag]

See, I largely disagree with you there. I do think it's a privilege to have him here. In a way, one'd be mad not to when you look at his career and then think of where were when he joined us. So his mere presence has given us hope. You can't say that about Carver, McClaren or Pardew - even though I fully acknowledge that Pardew did some decent work occasionally when he was here.

We, as fans of NUFC, are always being made fun of by pundits, "experts" and fans of other clubs for getting on the back of our managers too soon and for being deluded. It bothers me that now that we have a manager whom we know what stands for, sees the potential in the club and has stayed on even though he's been f*cked over, some fans insist on not supporting him as we are going through a rough patch. Can't we get behind the manager, now that we have one with a very good track record?

The main reason we are going through a rough patch is Mike Ashley, not Rafael Benitez. That doesn't mean he's blameless. And I do think fans would have lost patience had it been someone else - like you say Ghost - but that's irrelevant to me; knowing he has brought success in the past is a good enough reason for us fans to have patience and give him time (and money!) to do what we know he can.

The way I see it, Rafa's not at all immune to criticism. Most managers are questioned over their abilities week in week out. I have my doubts about his substitutions in matches (generally) and I think he's underestimating our ability to hang on to a lead. But those are not major issues for me right now. The key thing is the long run and what Rafa can do here if he's allowed to do it.

I, for one, am happy not to see "RAFA OUT"-flags all around the ground. I don't think it would make sense, and I'm happy that the fans - generally speaking - are getting behind our manager, even if he is defensive-minded etc.

what potential in this club apart from the fans did rafa see

apart from the huge wage bill offered by ash and charnley

when he joined there was no talk of a takeover etc
so rafa was more than happy to work with ash
not once but twice
he could of left
but im sure his agent said
there aint a lot of people looking for a has been that they want to give 5 mill ayear to

there are many many many managers out there that have brough success

but why would we want them here

george graham

terry venables

gerrard houlier
brendan rodgers

the list is endless
but just look at arsenal to see that a manage evtually has to admit the game has moved on
and some on here need to realise
whilst rafa may have been a decent manager in the past

the game has moved on
and he hasnt

even fergie struggled towards the end against the young up and coming managers

face it
we havent seen anything resembling anything he did 10-15 years ago or more

[Kal]

why waist any millions mill on him and not bring mistertrick through or even armstrong
surely given time both are or would be better than joselwho and use the money and wages to get a loan plyer at the time

Why not stand by YOUR manager and give him the money to get a decent striker in the first place?

You've never rated 'mistertrick' so why do you suddenly think he'll do the business ?

[pboromag]

why buy all the time
why not nurture and improve

isnt that what a manager on 5-7 mill is supposed to do

but nope same ols same old
the only way you can do anything is to spend as much as you can

why have a manager if all you want to do is buy the best or most expensive

how or when does the manager have to pull his sleeves up and get on with awhat he has got and show us what a class manager he is

[Andy1981_2]

Nobody thinks it's all Rafa's fault but equally he's not innocent either.

That's why I chose my words carefully - I used the phrase 'as though' because I don't think anybody here is so silly as to think the situation comes down to a single person's decisions. But they often present their opinion as though they think it is. Like, for example, when you say you "guarantee" that if (e.g.) Eddie Howe was in charge we'd be clamouring for his head under the same set of performances and results (I assume that's what you mean, apologies if I've misread it but I've had a few!) I think that's an odd claim for a number of reasons.

Firstly, I don't understand where you think Rafa gets this mythical status from amongst Newcastle fans. I don't remember ever - not even once - having a conversation with a Newcastle fan about how good a manager Rafa was before he joined Newcastle (at least, not more than anyone else who has been successful elsewhere). Rafa was just yet another manager who's won trophies/done a good job elsewhere before he joined the club. People warmed to him here specifically because he talked about things we hadn't heard recent managers talking about in the years before him - getting us back to where we were prior to the Ashley era, making the club reconnect with the fans and the community etc. And he has actually delivered on some of that stuff. We've had other managers here with big profiles who we never liked (e.g. Kenny Dalglish) so I just don't get the idea that we're somehow besotted by his past successes and can't see past his present failures.

Secondly, I think Newcastle fans on the whole have a decent enough understanding of the game to know that Eddie Howe is a top class manager who, if he was having similar results, would be struggling for largely the same reason - the squad can't deliver on his style of football. It would, of course, be worse for Eddie Howe, because our squad is even less qualified to deliver on his style than it is Rafa's. But it's incapable of delivering on either approach because both sides need someone who can put the ball in the net more often to actually win games. I think we'd feel equally privileged to have Eddie Howe I think, and we'd be getting behind him in the same way, and moaning about the fact that we don't have anyone who can put the ball in the back of the net etc.

Thirdly, the idea that Rafa resorts to 'extreme park the bus tactics' is exactly what I was getting at as an example of the extreme view you're saying nobody has. He's done that in literally one game. We've been defensive in others, but in other games we've pressed from the front, tried to get forward in numbers as often as possible, and so on. For Rafa, it's horses for courses. I totally get why you aren't impressed by Rafa, but it looks to me like you're genuinely struggling to look at the situation impartially, or that what you're really annoyed by is people always defending Rafa's approach, rather than Rafa's approach itself. And I think that if that's happening, it's only happening because of the abrasive style of the anti-Rafa views presented, in particular, by pboro, who clearly winds people on here up. Sorry if you think that's overstepping, but I just don't get where this idea of us as a delusional fanbase comes from, because I guess I don't hang out with people like that. I also never wanted Rafa, so perhaps it's easier for me to see both sides of things - I'm neither disillusioned nor am I overly impressed. I think he's simply doing a decent job with the squad he's got. Could be doing better, could be worse. But he's only two wins from the top 10 and two defeats from bottom, so that stands up. I'd like to see him given a chance to build a Premier League side because, as you point out, he has actually shown he can get us to perform in spells. Perhaps, with a decent striker to put away the chances we create, he could get us winning more often. If he did, we'd be in the top 8, which is mental!

[Andy1981_2]

why buy all the time
why not nurture and improve

isnt that what a manager on 5-7 mill is supposed to do

but nope same ols same old
the only way you can do anything is to spend as much as you can

why have a manager if all you want to do is buy the best or most expensive

how or when does the manager have to pull his sleeves up and get on with awhat he has got and show us what a class manager he is

Mate, be fair - you insisted to me that Mitrovic wouldn't improve no matter how much he was coached. Are you saying Joselu is a better prospect than Mitrovic? If that's your opinion, fair enough, but it does look a little inconsistent.

[Nufcian]

what potential in this club apart from the fans did rafa see

apart from the huge wage bill offered by ash and charnley

when he joined there was no talk of a takeover etc
so rafa was more than happy to work with ash
not once but twice
he could of left
but im sure his agent said
there aint a lot of people looking for a has been that they want to give 5 mill ayear to

there are many many many managers out there that have brough success

but why would we want them here

george graham

terry venables

gerrard houlier
brendan rodgers

the list is endless
but just look at arsenal to see that a manage evtually has to admit the game has moved on
and some on here need to realise
whilst rafa may have been a decent manager in the past

the game has moved on
and he hasnt

even fergie struggled towards the end against the young up and coming managers

face it
we havent seen anything resembling anything he did 10-15 years ago or more

If you can't see why Rafa would want to manage us other than money that just says a lot about your opinion of the club and it's fans.

If he leaves us he'll walk into a top job in a CL club.

Game has moved on in how long 10 - 15 years? You rolled out that line a few times... Do you mean less than 5 years when he had a Top 4 finish and won the EUFA cup with Chelsea? Less than 4 years ago he won the Coppa Italia with Napoli too.

[pboromag]

he wouldnt get a top job in any cl league club
he had one and got sacked he was tat ****e

trust me he has ahd his day

there are many many many young managers coming through that would get a job before gim