Crewe Alex launch legal action against majority shareholder Norman Hassall

[MikeSB]

Not everything's about the academy

Well, it was the Directors themselves that said the academy was more important than the first team. Its obvious the academy is bleeding huge sums of money and its pretty obvious that if the current Directors are having to put in 'large' sums of money in order to keep that going at £760K per year which has never been sustainable with a club our size and Gradi and Bowler or other members of the Board should not have allowed that to happen when almost every other club in L1 and L2 doesn't have that level.

The plain fact is the money has run out and so has the transfer income and the Hassall affair is just a sideshow to that situation as it would have happened anyway.

The academy gave us some comparative success. It's also given us some comparative failings as well. ie going from 8th in the Championship with 4m from the Ashton transfer to looking at non league and 25 million quid mostly going back into the academy and loans to Hassall. There is only one group of people responsible for that and its the Board of Directors. They knew about the Blackpool situation and did NOTHING until now.

They are only crying about it now and doing something because NOW they are having to put in money of their own and its something I have said on many occasions on here. They all sat on their hands and let it happen and we can have no sympathy for them when they ought to have acted sooner, much sooner...

[thnhouse]

Well, it was the Directors themselves that said the academy was more important than the first team. Its obvious the academy is bleeding huge sums of money and its pretty obvious that if the current Directors are having to put in 'large' sums of money in order to keep that going at £760K per year which has never been sustainable with a club our size and Gradi and Bowler or other members of the Board should not have allowed that to happen when almost every other club in L1 and L2 doesn't have that level.

The plain fact is the money has run out and so has the transfer income and the Hassall affair is just a sideshow to that situation as it would have happened anyway.

The academy gave us some comparative success. It's also given us some comparative failings as well. ie going from 8th in the Championship with 4m from the Ashton transfer to looking at non league and 25 million quid mostly going back into the academy and loans to Hassall. There is only one group of people responsible for that and its the Board of Directors. They knew about the Blackpool situation and did NOTHING until now.

They are only crying about it now and doing something because NOW they are having to put in money of their own and its something I have said on many occasions on here. They all sat on their hands and let it happen and we can have no sympathy for them when they ought to have acted sooner, much sooner...

Mike, my point was this is about the directors and the current finances , not another chance for you to bleat on about the academy again.

The whole point of this is that it’s not the academy bleeding money from the club it’s a director.

You’re complaining about the paint job on a car while the engines on fire. Saying that I suspect if that happened to you the first thing you would do is complain that fires used to get put out with buckets of sand in the 20’s so there’s no point using a hose today.

[MikeSB]

Mike, my point was this is about the directors and the current finances , not another chance for you to bleat on about the academy again.

The whole point of this is that it’s not the academy bleeding money from the club it’s a director.

You’re complaining about the paint job on a car while the engines on fire. Saying that I suspect if that happened to you the first thing you would do is complain that fires used to get put out with buckets of sand in the 20’s so there’s no point using a hose today.

I don't like knocking the club as they are getting enough of that already both on and off the field. My point is not a 'bleat' about the academy but that its central to the whole ethos of the club and so it cannot be isolated and in any case the Board has said they are looking that that too and its just my guess that it will be downgraded to Cat3 because that saves a lot of money without again in my view compromising the local lads wanting to play for us for the reasons I have given before. It would be nice if someone could acknowledge my concerns over many years about so much money going on the academy instead of the first team. No other club in football does that as so why do we? Because it was fine for a few years but that was BEFORE the EPPP and dictate of the FA insisting they know better. Dario had success without needing an army of coaches and others that cost over a million pounds per season and so it will go...I will have been proved right and would have saved the club millions over the last 5 years had they downgraded it.

Your other point is we don't actually know how much Hassall owes the club in loans he has not repaid. And so its difficult to use that term when we KNOW for certain that the club has raised over 25 million or more from player sales and most has gone back not where is should have but back into the academy and so for me even if Norman owes a million or even two million, that pales into insignificance to that risky adventure and in some ways worse.

Our other point is the Board seem to be complicit in allowing Norman to take out millions that was so badly needed for investment in the first team and also must have known that was a legal risk to allow such a thing and its no good moaning now when they all could have resigned and thereby causing a huge stink in football and may well have resulted in someone going to jail or a huge fine. I'm not commenting on the alleged abuse here but again its clear it took place and its alleged one Director was so concerned he contacted the FA and it was brushed under the carpet.

How come the NH court thing was not mentioned last night anyway when they made it public today? fans come second once again, just like someone suggesting reducing ticket prices to get more fans in.

I was a fan before the current board was here and before the DG era and will be if they all resigned tomorrow and we ended up in non league even. My point being this Board has never given a damn about the fans but now they are having at long LONG last expected to cough up some hard cash, its they that are bleating.

Your analogy about the car is that I wouldn't have allowed the car to get on fire in the first place by ensuring the right safety practices were put in place and so the Board is where it is is because they didn't use sand or a hose on Noman when it was needed. Being the largest shareholder should not have allowed him to act in an illegal manner IF that is what they are now saying in the upcoming court case that is...

This board and the academy is inseparable by means of words from their own mouths mate! They are now reaping what they all sowed....ie collectively and they cannot blame just one Director for it either!

[thnhouse]

Have you considered that the reason the board haven't acted until now is that it is only recently that a precedent has been set by Blackpool to do something about these directors that bleed money out of the club?

Would you also not say that if we've got 25 million worth of player sales that the majority of that is from academy players and the rest is from players that were developed from the "army" of coaches we have had?

I think the point is that being the largest shareholder by and large gives you the right to do what you want to a company, so thats what he's done. I think if anything we have a lot to be thankful for to the other board members keeping the club afloat by the sounds of things out of their own pocket. Isn't this the third time the directors have publicly said they've had to put their own money in?

Just out of interest what makes you think the other board members were complicit in this alleged bleeding of the club?

You're completely right to say that the club and the academy are inseparable, but you seem to miss that if we hadn't have had the academy Hassal would have still been bleeding money out of the club and we'd be in worse shape now than we are.

You make an awful lot of assertions but I'm not really sure what any of them are based on.

Love the Partridge style reply to the car stuff though. Jurassic Park!

[MikeSB]

Have you considered that the reason the board haven't acted until now is that it is only recently that a precedent has been set by Blackpool to do something about these directors that bleed money out of the club?

Would you also not say that if we've got 25 million worth of player sales that the majority of that is from academy players and the rest is from players that were developed from the "army" of coaches we have had?

I think the point is that being the largest shareholder by and large gives you the right to do what you want to a company, so thats what he's done. I think if anything we have a lot to be thankful for to the other board members keeping the club afloat by the sounds of things out of their own pocket. Isn't this the third time the directors have publicly said they've had to put their own money in?

Just out of interest what makes you think the other board members were complicit in this alleged bleeding of the club?

You're completely right to say that the club and the academy are inseparable, but you seem to miss that if we hadn't have had the academy Hassal would have still been bleeding money out of the club and we'd be in worse shape now than we are.

You make an awful lot of assertions but I'm not really sure what any of them are based on.

Love the Partridge style reply to the car stuff though. Jurassic Park!

Could we be in a worse shape? I didn't actually say the other Directors were 'bleeding' money out of the club. I suppose when NH saw millions doing nothing in the accounts, he thought, hang about! It's a complete dereliction of shareholders duty not to have supported the FIRST team and put all the money on a kids playground adventure...that may have with a bit of luck, roll of the dice scenario that it would pay off....

I wonder how much money the Directors have loaned the club and how they think they are going to get it back in a period of transfer stagnation?

We didn't need to see the Blackpool scenario to tell other businessmen what is right and what was clearly wrong. What if NH refuses to pay anything back?

[out0lunch]

I think it makes interesting listening to the full video on the OS especially re the academy and costs (around 40 minutes I think)

Someone asks a question re the academy and costs (could have been you Mike but too cold a night)
As the director says we have to factor in other benefits eg physios etc which we would have to pay for anyway

The sound though is awful

[MikeSB]

I think it makes interesting listening to the full video on the OS especially re the academy and costs (around 40 minutes I think)

Someone asks a question re the academy and costs (could have been you Mike but too cold a night)
As the director says we have to factor in other benefits eg physios etc which we would have to pay for anyway

The sound though is awful

Thanks for that mate, will have a listen and no I didn't go as it was too cold and someone said you needed a ticket anyway. It shows others too are concerned about the costs of the academy. I would just ask what difference a Cat3 academy would cost or indeed no academy or Cat4 even. It would be interesting if someone could plot the costs of each stage of the academy from the Shavington days through to the emergence of Reaseheath and the EPPP and which players were sold at each stage and that would show the benefits of it and level of coaching at each stage? If I was a Director, I would want to know?

I also wonder what happens when the lease runs out in 10 years? Most leaseholders put the fees up don't they? I would even like to know that figure too..

[thnhouse]

Could we be in a worse shape? I didn't actually say the other Directors were 'bleeding' money out of the club. I suppose when NH saw millions doing nothing in the accounts, he thought, hang about! It's a complete dereliction of shareholders duty not to have supported the FIRST team and put all the money on a kids playground adventure...that may have with a bit of luck, roll of the dice scenario that it would pay off....

I wonder how much money the Directors have loaned the club and how they think they are going to get it back in a period of transfer stagnation?

We didn't need to see the Blackpool scenario to tell other businessmen what is right and what was clearly wrong. What if NH refuses to pay anything back?

Blackpool set a precedent for legal action, it’s not about right or wrong. Before then if the majority shareholder was self interested and asset stripping the club he could do as he’s the one who makes those choices. Now our board has seen a route in which to fight back a bit.

Yes we could be in worse shape. With a chairman taking money and no academy to back up the first team we could easily go down the same route as Stockport, Tranmere , Halifax, Wrexham, Chester, York etc

Mike you seem to be under the belief that if this money hadn’t gone to the academy then NH would have let it be spent on the first team? Isn’t it a bit more likely that he saw a cash cow that was producing saleable assets so kept that funded while taking money from elsewhere?

[MikeSB]

Blackpool set a precedent for legal action, it’s not about right or wrong. Before then if the majority shareholder was self interested and asset stripping the club he could do as he’s the one who makes those choices. Now our board has seen a route in which to fight back a bit.

Yes we could be in worse shape. With a chairman taking money and no academy to back up the first team we could easily go down the same route as Stockport, Tranmere , Halifax, Wrexham, Chester, York etc

Mike you seem to be under the belief that if this money hadn’t gone to the academy then NH would have let it be spent on the first team? Isn’t it a bit more likely that he saw a cash cow that was producing saleable assets so kept that funded while taking money from elsewhere?

thn, I really don't want to fall out with other fans here or anywhere else as its water under the bridge now and think we are all on the same side that we want our team to avoid relegation and then do better next season. The Board have many issues to sort out and hope they can too. I would just say one thing about the money we had from transfer fees over the years and that is none of us would have complained had the Board INCLUDING NH had a policy of 25% of all transfer fees 'ring fenced' for the first team and that would arguably have given us at least 6 million pounds and NH could not have touched that, and could have given us continuity with 75% going to the academy although I would have preferred a 5/50 split but let's be generous to their ethos and that would have given us a great mix of experience without having to rely almost entirely on the youngsters coming through and thing to me at least is it's not right expecting young lads to compete physically at this level week in and week out and then get depressed as we do by getting beat etc...so there maybe some madness in my method but I think it could have worked out just fine and gave a boost to those who see the academy more in the light of generating money as well as potential players for the whole essence of any league club which has to be the first team. Not doing that has proved the Board's Achilles heel in more ways than one...I think DG has some responsibility there.

Having millions sitting in the club accounts was like letting loose Dracula in a blood bank!

[somersetcrewe]

Well, it was the Directors themselves that said the academy was more important than the first team....

Is that what they actually said? - if so, when and who? I'm curious.
Or is this just an interpretation of what has been going on? (which of course is completely different)