OT : OK, I'll be the one to ask...

[MagpieTony]

So basically Andy you're saying that if we accept immigrants and do not bow down to the demands of the immigrant population we have to accept that they may well want to kill us because our government is bad and that is something we just have to accept. We should disregard the other 1400 years of Islamic terror and expansion through violent Jihad because their terrorism is nothing to do with their religion, they're just pissed at the West.

I totally agree that some of the things we do and have done have bought suffering on the region of the Middle East and our governments have a lot to answer for both historically and currently, but the issue of Islamic violence goes back well beyond 20th century political action and well beyond the boundaries of the oil rich Middle East. It is a recurring theme all over the world and not just in the West including Countries well outside that of the Middle East. However, wherever in the world there is Islam there is always social unrest and violence.

[andy6025]

So basically Andy you're saying that if we accept immigrants and do not bow down to the demands of the immigrant population we have to accept that they may well want to kill us because our government is bad and that is something we just have to accept. We should disregard the other 1400 years of Islamic terror and expansion through violent Jihad because their terrorism is nothing to do with their religion, they're just pissed at the West.

I totally agree that some of the things we do and have done have bought suffering on the region of the Middle East and our governments have a lot to answer for both historically and currently, but the issue of Islamic violence goes back well beyond 20th century political action and well beyond the boundaries of the oil rich Middle East. It is a recurring theme all over the world and not just in the West including Countries well outside that of the Middle East. However, wherever in the world there is Islam there is always social unrest and violence.

No.

I'm saying that we have to stop engaging in regime change by military means (either direct or covert). This will cut down significantly on the number of refugees and severely cut down on the number of people seeking revenge for the deaths of their loved ones.

We have to stop our 'business' and military relationships with the tyrants that rule over them, especially Saudi Arabia who we directly assist in their war against Yemen and whom we supply with weapons and cash to brutally supress their own people (Uk and Canada included).

We have to stop supplying weapons and cash to 'Arab Spring' movements that we think are in our or Israel's interests. We need to stop being beholden to our own weapons manufacturers in order to achieve this....and we are beholden to them, because like middle-eastern tyrants, we are corrupt.

We have to stop propping up the aparthied regime that is Israel and make a serious effort to assist in negotiating a solution to that crisis without prejudice against Palestinians and wholly in favour of Israel (the terms of last suggested agreements were absolutely sickening).

We need to consider that Iran, Russia and other countries have interests in the region and that we should work together with them to our mutual benefit and especially to the benefit and interests of local people. Where we are selfish on behalf of our business elites and don't legitimately consider local interests (rather than simply the interests of our puppets), we will foment anger, hostility snd rebellion - it will appear in the guise of religion.

[MagpieTony]

No.

I'm saying that we have to stop engaging in regime change by military means (either direct or covert). This will cut down significantly on the number of refugees and severely cut down on the number of people seeking revenge for the deaths of their loved ones.

We have to stop our 'business' and military relationships with the tyrants that rule over them, especially Saudi Arabia who we directly assist in their war against Yemen and whom we supply with weapons and cash to brutally supress their own people (Uk and Canada included).

We have to stop supplying weapons and cash to 'Arab Spring' movements that we think are in our or Israel's interests. We need to stop being beholden to our own weapons manufacturers in order to achieve this....and we are beholden to them, because like middle-eastern tyrants, we are corrupt.

We have to stop propping up the aparthied regime that is Israel and make a serious effort to assist in negotiating a solution to that crisis without prejudice against Palestinians and wholly in favour of Israel (the terms of last suggested agreements were absolutely sickening).

We need to consider that Iran, Russia and other countries have interests in the region and that we should work together with them to our mutual benefit and especially to the benefit and interests of local people. Where we are selfish on behalf of our business elites and don't legitimately consider local interests (rather than simply the interests of our puppets), we will foment anger, hostility snd rebellion - it will appear in the guise of religion.

I completely agree with most of that Andy. However, that will not make one jot or iota of difference to Islamic terrorism. Jihad and expansion through violence has always been a part of Islam both historically and currently. I am not a Muslim hater, I think they are as much victims of Islam and its heinous ideology as the victims it claims in the West. They are born into bondage and forced to conform to practices which inhibit their freedom and force them into a life over which they have limited control and which the opportunity to choose is often denied. They are forcibly made to embrace hatred and should they choose to revolt, do so on pain of death. To read and follow the Koran is one step away from radicalisation and will lead to a life of conflict.

[Trickytreesreds]

Yearh yearh Andy.

It is all our fault.
We get it.

Of course Islam has never condoned violence/subjugation/oppression in its very scriptures to gain its goals. It is all the Wests fault.
Ottoman empire? Wests fault. Quite clearly nothing to do with the islamic teachings.
Obviously outdated. Never catch a current Islamic leader (say Erdogan) declare the caliphate is returning. No sir. Ideas long forgotten.

Here's a plan, lets allow Islam a firm foothold in Europe and put no restrictions on their faith. Let them interpret it as they choose and if they decide to follow the radical version?
Well, what can you do?
It's part of their culture and the West is obviously to blame for the poor dears feeling this way.




* for what it's worth. I believe we should keep out of the whole area. They'll just scrap with each other as they have done for a millennia.

[seriouspie]

No.

I'm saying that we have to stop engaging in regime change by military means (either direct or covert). This will cut down significantly on the number of refugees and severely cut down on the number of people seeking revenge for the deaths of their loved ones.

We have to stop our 'business' and military relationships with the tyrants that rule over them, especially Saudi Arabia who we directly assist in their war against Yemen and whom we supply with weapons and cash to brutally supress their own people (Uk and Canada included).

We have to stop supplying weapons and cash to 'Arab Spring' movements that we think are in our or Israel's interests. We need to stop being beholden to our own weapons manufacturers in order to achieve this....and we are beholden to them, because like middle-eastern tyrants, we are corrupt.

We have to stop propping up the aparthied regime that is Israel and make a serious effort to assist in negotiating a solution to that crisis without prejudice against Palestinians and wholly in favour of Israel (the terms of last suggested agreements were absolutely sickening).

We need to consider that Iran, Russia and other countries have interests in the region and that we should work together with them to our mutual benefit and especially to the benefit and interests of local people. Where we are selfish on behalf of our business elites and don't legitimately consider local interests (rather than simply the interests of our puppets), we will foment anger, hostility snd rebellion - it will appear in the guise of religion.

Jesus wept - another brainwashed pacifist.