O/T Would You Welcome Another Referendum On Brexit ?

[lk311]

The referendum wasn't ever presented as advisory , everyone knew that and it was never going to be any other other than a winner takes all vote .

Strange how the 1975 referendum was done in exactly same way but nobody seems to have objected to the fact a referendum would decide and not Parliament.

[Exiletyke]

Strange how the 1975 referendum was done in exactly same way but nobody seems to have objected to the fact a referendum would decide and not Parliament.

Now that is a very good point IK

[KerrAvon]

Strange how the 1975 referendum was done in exactly same way but nobody seems to have objected to the fact a referendum would decide and not Parliament.

What's your point? The electorate voted to leave and we are leaving next year. The debate at the moment is over the terms of the departure and of the future relationship with the EU.

[Exiletyke]

What's your point? The electorate voted to leave and we are leaving next year. The debate at the moment is over the terms of the departure and of the future relationship with the EU.

Really?

[lk311]

What's your point? The electorate voted to leave and we are leaving next year. The debate at the moment is over the terms of the departure and of the future relationship with the EU.

My mistake, I thought the post was about would you welcome another referendum not about the terms etc

[KerrAvon]

My mistake, I thought the post was about would you welcome another referendum not about the terms etc

I'm sorry, but I really don't get the point that originally made or the one you are making now.

The 1975 referendum was upon whether we should remain in what was then the EEC. The country voted remain and that's what we did. In the 2016 vote, the country voted leave and that is what the government is putting into effect. The opposition parties and some Tory rebels have managed to secure a concession under which Parliament gets a 'meaningful vote' on the terms of our departure, but not on the issue of whether we leave. That was secured by Gina Miller in the Supreme Court and led to the later vote by Parliament to give notice of withdrawal.

Help me with what your point is.

[lk311]

I'm sorry, but I really don't get the point that originally made or the one you are making now.

The 1975 referendum was upon whether we should remain in what was then the EEC. The country voted remain and that's what we did. In the 2016 vote, the country voted leave and that is what the government is putting into effect. The opposition parties and some Tory rebels have managed to secure a concession under which Parliament gets a 'meaningful vote' on the terms of our departure, but not on the issue of whether we leave. That was secured by Gina Miller in the Supreme Court and led to the later vote by Parliament to give notice of withdrawal.

Help me with what your point is.

I admit I was only 5 in 1975, so my recollection is from historical reference not living it but as far as I am aware they didn’t have a second referendum, which is what this post was about?
Secondly other posters said it wasn’t binding but neither was the 1975 but it was accepted.

[KerrAvon]

I admit I was only 5 in 1975, so my recollection is from historical reference not living it but as far as I am aware they didn’t have a second referendum, which is what this post was about?
Secondly other posters said it wasn’t binding but neither was the 1975 but it was accepted.

We voted remain in 1975. The referendum in 2016 was a second referendum (although it's possible to argue that the EEC had fundamentally changed beyond merely rebranding as the EU).

I have little doubt that we will have a third referendum within the next 20 years or so upon whether we rejoin the EU, or whatever it will be called by then.

[Exiletyke]

I admit I was only 5 in 1975, so my recollection is from historical reference not living it but as far as I am aware they didn’t have a second referendum, which is what this post was about?
Secondly other posters said it wasn’t binding but neither was the 1975 but it was accepted.

Here's my take on our current position

May is a remainer at heart
May is making a botch of things with the Tory Grandees pulling the strings
Thatcher thought she was in control but in the end she wasn't
May [& the nomark Gove] keep reiterating the mantra that accepting the peoples wishes must honoured
There are forces at work promoting the idea that the people should decide on the outcome of the negotiations with the "EU" with a vote [referendum] on the outcome
Options being
accept the deal [whatever it is]
accept no deal
REMAIN
If by this means the vote is to remain, it will be the will of the people thus absolving our politicians of any responsibility which I believe is the end game

[KerrAvon]

Here's my take on our current position

May is a remainer at heart
May is making a botch of things with the Tory Grandees pulling the strings
Thatcher thought she was in control but in the end she wasn't
May [& the nomark Gove] keep reiterating the mantra that accepting the peoples wishes must honoured
There are forces at work promoting the idea that the people should decide on the outcome of the negotiations with the "EU" with a vote [referendum] on the outcome
Options being
accept the deal [whatever it is]
accept no deal
REMAIN
If by this means the vote is to remain, it will be the will of the people thus absolving our politicians of any responsibility which I believe is the end game

That is quite a theory, Exile – a lot of moving parts.

May supported the remain campaign, but her political future, such as it is, depends upon delivering Brexit and she must know that. Neither she nor the Tories would survive a u-turn on the outcome of the 2016 referendum. She may well not survive a ‘successful’ Brexit if the Europhobe wing of her party doesn’t like the final deal.

I don’t think May is making a botch of anything. She is playing the hand dealt by the electorate and in Chequers has come up with what is probably the most pragmatic approach possible if a ‘no deal’ exit is to be avoided.

As for the notion that Tory grandees (whoever they might be) are working in the background, I would suggest that doesn’t hold water. The Tories have always been split on Europe, because large swathes of the party are Eurosceptic. Starting with Thatcher, the Tories have easily been the most Eurosceptic party short of the BNP and UKIP. At the present time it is the centre Left in the form of the Lib Dems who are most pro-EU (who knows what Labour thinks about it). And how does the notion that there is a Tory plot to frustrate Brexit sit with the call from the GMB that there be a second public vote? I think it unlikely that they would be influenced by Tory grandees.

If there were to be a third referendum before Brexit was completed and the public endorsed remain then of course the politicians would be absolved of responsibility for remaining, because they would be putting the will of the people into effect. I would have a small wager with you that there will be no such vote, however.