Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
Ok, so your brown coal allegation was made up. Would you now like to point out where I wouldn't accept that we have to act now on climate change? I recall trying to explain to Roly several times that we need to act rather than simply make bland statements about ways that we could act. He thought it 'fascist' of me to do so.

I understand that you still have strong feelings about the miners strike, but we are more than thirty years on and we ought to be able to have a rational and objective discussion about it.

Can you tell me where my assessment was error ridden? Can we agree on these basic facts:

1. The constitution of the NUM regulated the relationship between that union and its members. The members paid their subs and we're entitled to the benefits of membership in return.
2. The NUM constitution provided that a national strike could be called only after a secret ballot of the entire membership.
3. No national ballot was held. At the time Scargill said that he wasn't willing to have the fate of threatened pits determined by workers in 'safe' areas. Writing since, Ken Livingstone says that Scargill was scared that the membership might have rejected a national ballot, which may be the same thing.
4. In the absence of a national ballot, the strike was not a national strike, resulting in the absence of the solidarity that was required to turn the lights of.
5. In other words, in the absence of a national ballot, some areas continued to work, making 'victory' impossible.
6. The NUM tried to prevent the miners who chose to work from doing so by arranging extensive picketing - thus setting miner against miner - working man against working man.
7. The picketing failed resulting in the dispute turning into a water of attrition that the strikers could never win but, as animal points out it still ran long after that would have been apparent.
8. Working miners had to take the NUM to court to stop it misapplying funds.

I'm happy to hear an alternative interpretation. For my part, I would simply observe that something had gone badly wrong in a union that denied it's members their rights, set working man against working man and left members needing to take the union to court to prevent their funds from being misappropriated. Who needs Victorian management attitudes and behaviours when a union behaves like that?
Where you're not accepting climate change is where you're still encouraging fracking, profit over planet, you "recall trying to explain to roly several times that we need to act".........acting means stopping fracking at this very moment......we need to act now, you've had your warning from experts but weirdly you still want to frack the country to bits....

You don't understand anything about the miners strike, nothing, your mind is linear, you have no emotion, i feel sorry for you, the years since the strike don't mean i don't feel the exact same injustice that i felt then, just like yesterday for me, you could liken it to your obsession with the 1970's....

You wanna talk about ballots, lets start with a bit of groundwork, when an incentive scheme was introduced in the late 70's the scheme meant that different areas would be paid different rates......something against the very thing most miners understood, solidarity and fairness across the board, fair pay for ALL.
The union national executive rejected it, rightly, but the then leader, a moderate, Joe Gormley(later to be outed as an informant to the gov't) sent it to ballot, one area attempted to stop it, but was knocked back by the judge who stated the national executive might not represent the 'true voice of the members'.....
The scheme was voted on, and was soundly rejected, three areas, always the most moderate, nottinghamshire, south Derbyshire and Leicestershire decided to adopt it anyway.....against the ballot, other areas sought an injunction from the high court to stop them doing so, guess what, that pinnacle of British justice and fairness rejected the case and decided the ballot wasn't binding.....go figure, British, elite justice at it's corrupt best...

That's the background, so, after being thoroughly shafted by the moderate side of the union, and the British justice system, i reckon the faith in the ballot system was a little jaded, don't you think?

Now onto the strike, the union decided to play the same game, and allowed each seperate area to have their own vote, simple as that.

I aint gunna go through each point Kerr what i will say is this, who do you think 'won' the benefits that the miners 'enjoyed', not bad pay, safer conditions than most other country's mines, decent pension arrangement??

It wasn't the Nottinghamshire miners and those from other moderate areas, that's for sure, they rode on the backs of the militant areas, Yorkshire, Scotland, Wales, North east, Kent, who were prepared to sacrifice and fight. Every Yorkshire miner knew what those in Nottinghamshire were like, you see, miners talked about politics, union business, most union meetings were very well attended....How then, do you think those miners felt when those moderates Shat all over them??

Cue the strike, lo and behold, Nottinghamshire votes to work, scabs, shatting all over their mates, condemning the industry to catastrophe, guess where those working miners ended up? exactly the same place as me, what a bunch of wet, lily livered toss pots with no thought for anyone but themselves.

Those shytehouses also condemned the country to the place where we are right now, one which is continuing to strip back those hard won workers rights, where zero hour contracts are rife, where hire and fire is the norm, tragic.

The strike tactics wernt perfect by any stretch, after all how could they be, the strike was manufactured by the gov't, the timing was right, all the plans in place, a police force trained in riot control when it had hardly ever been called for, a secret service tapping phones of union leaders across the board, even local ones.

There you have it, i couldn't give two shytes what you think, or your opinion on what was 'legal' or not, you see, your legal system had already shafted us over thoroughly, so miners hold little faith in it, i still don't, just about as corrupt as they come, but in a very British way....