O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[animallittle3]

The Norway plus deal is no slam dunk either .


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...us-brexit-plan

[great_fire]

Rudd has been picked as the next leader, why would they bring her back otherwise?

Also parallels Germany where Merkel Mk II has been picked to follow Merkel.

Doesn't matter that May has been utterly useless we still get May Mk II.

Proves what I've been saying about the electorate being held in contempt.

[animallittle3]

I pretty convinced she's in exit strategy mode and this deal is her way out with some kind of credibility behind her .

She knows it's a bad deal deep down and she knows full well it won't pass but still she plods on despite advice to the contrary .

There is only so much you can cope with and it's bound to catch up with you eventually .

Her own moral must be on the floor and she will be out of energy and motivation .

[DaveyJohn]

Seems to be much support for no deal on here. By way of balance, is that really democratic?

I think I said earlier in this thread that we could loosely break down the people in the country into these Brexit preferences:

- No deal
- Hard Brexit al la ERG (Canada + type option)
- May's deal
- Soft Brexit with CU/SM Focus
- Remain

The problem is that the commons, and behind that, all of us are incredibly split behind these deal options. Or you could break it down this way:

- No deal
- Exit with deal of some kind
- Remain

Again, you'd find the nation very split between these options.


However you split it though, I would confidently say that there is only a small (but very passionate) minority for the No Deal with the vast majority (48% Remain + all of those who want a deal of sorts) makes up the vast majority of our electorate.

So, if you are arguing for a democratic outcome, how can it be argued that a No Deal is democratic and represents the majority of people?

(However, it is accepted that this notion was encouraged by the crass binary choice on the 2016 ballot paper. But surely, if we are trying to get a truly democratic outcome, we have to go for a compromise that loosely reflects the national majority?)

But with all the different types of deal fragmenting the Leave vote, as opposed to the one deal voted for by the Remain voters, how is it possible to even loosely reflect the national majority?

If we go all the way back to 2016, the "crass binary choice" on the ballot paper didn't mention a deal. I certainly don't recall the Leave campaigns making any kind of noises about the importance of securing a good deal should the Leave vote win. We'd already lost that argument when Cameron went to Brussels and tried to negotiate some UK only concessions that would allow us to remain in a "reformed European Union." He got absolutely zilch from the EU, and that set the tone for what we were up against. It was obvious from that point on that any negotiation with the EU was going to be extremely difficult bordering on impossible.

So when the Referendum happened, I would suggest that most people who had previously thought the UK could Leave and get a good deal would have opted to Remain. There was too much uncertainty in voting to Leave if ticking that box then relied heavily on getting major concessions from the EU. However, I would further suggest that the people who voted to Leave did so with the acceptance that "No Deal" was a very real possibility. Whether they understood the ramifications of this or not I couldn't say, both sides of the Referendum Campaigns were pretty disgraceful in their scaremongering tactics.

So whilst it's a fair comment that most on the Leave side would "prefer" some sort of a deal, I think it's also fair to say that those same people would also accept a No Deal scenario. It would be utterly foolish to vote to Leave if the thought of No Deal wasn't acceptable to the person making that vote.

[animallittle3]

As exiles video from YouTube suggests why did we even have to negotiate with the EU .

Why didn't we just pay what we owed for projects we'd signed up to , made it clear current EU migrants were more than welcome to stay and just leave .

OK WTO ain't great but we all knew it wasn't going to be easy street but as time went on we can negotiate trade deals , who wouldn't want to do business with us ?

When you actually look at it in simple terms where are the actual issues to free ourselves from this club who have 27 countries right where they want them and accountable to nobody .

Tell you now leaving the EU will probably cost me my job , a job I love and the pay is spot on , I'll get by as I always have .

Fuq the EU , set of parasite unelected fuq wits , we are better than that in my opinion .

Fuq em .

[BigLadonOS]

As exiles video from YouTube suggests why did we even have to negotiate with the EU .

Why didn't we just pay what we owed for projects we'd signed up to , made it clear current EU migrants were more than welcome to stay and just leave .

OK WTO ain't great but we all knew it wasn't going to be easy street but as time went on we can negotiate trade deals , who wouldn't want to do business with us ?

When you actually look at it in simple terms where are the actual issues to free ourselves from this club who have 27 countries right where they want them and accountable to nobody .

Tell you now leaving the EU will probably cost me my job , a job I love and the pay is spot on , I'll get by as I always have .

Fuq the EU , set of parasite unelected fuq wits , we are better than that in my opinion .

Fuq em .

Exactly animal, fuq em.

[KerrAvon]

Any government regardless of the party splits the country. A good quality of the British people is that they know that they have another 5 years to change the direction if they wish to. It is rare that something comes along that unifies the people of the UK but there is an underlying tolerance to politics. Or there was!

This referendum was down to one mans ego and he fled when the going got tough! Cameron will go down in history as a Tw@t!

If the UK decides to go for a second 'Peoples vote' it would be welcomed in the most of Europe. The French polititions will be the most scathing but the light at the end of the tunnel is that Mâcron is doing U-turns like every other French President has done.

Why was the referendum down to Cameron? The rise of UKIP demonstrated that there was a significant level of disquiet in the country about EU membership. The referendum was a Tory manifesto promise in 2015, the Referendum Bill was supported by Labour and 52% of the people who voted wanted to leave -including, on the evidence of this thread, people such as Exile, animal and BigLaden, who do not strike me as being Cameron fans.

[KerrAvon]

This sums it up for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0M0UlYZO_Y

Last week, we had RP finding wisdom in the words of an aging folk musician and this week we have you finding it in those of a right wing, public school boy sounding ‘vlogger’ who makes money out of putting up controversial videos for the weak minded and unquestioning to view and share.

Doesn’t it bother you that the video is factually incorrect? He rails against the May deal, explaining that the electorate voted for an end to free movement, membership of the single market and the making of outrageous payments to the EU budget. The May deal delivers all of that…

He also says that people voted for an end to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights… Really? The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU.

[KerrAvon]

The only way there is going to be another referendum in this country is if the powers that be are willing to accept the consequences of a civil war breaking out because that is what would happen.

If the government blatantly break the law of this country they should be imprisoned instantly for treason against the people.

Parliament would have to pass a further referendum bill for there to be another referendum. At that point, the holding of a second referendum would become the law.

[KerrAvon]

I believe that the majority want a deal but certainly not this one

And this sums up the issue. For many MPs, the May deal doesn’t suit their own personalised view of what a good deal would be, but they fail to consider whether the deal that they would want is actually attainable.