F P S share proposal

[Returnofrros]

Entrenched rights go with ownership of the A Ordinary shares, currently DFCSS which holds the shares for the protection of the club and therefore all Dundee FC fans.

All fans can have a say for £5 per year if they so wish, if they don't then that's fair enough but the option's there.

All Dee fans???? I don't agree with that.

In a perfect world dfcss and all fans would be singing from the same hymn sheet, clearly from this thread they are not.

I know dayster wasn't trying to mis lead but it's an important difference, dfcss secured the entrenched rights for dfcss......and possibly the fans If the fans happen to agree with them.

Dfcss can't have it both ways they either represent the society or the fans....they appear to choose when it suits them.

At the end of the day dfcss responsibility is to their members.

Reminds me a bit of when the SNP think they represent all Scots....they don't and they do what's best for the SNP.

[Returnofrros]

Yes entrenched rights are given to the owners of the AShares, and at present they are owned by DFCSS. The purpose of the entrenched rights were designed to provide some protection against a majority shareholder trying to move the club from Dens, change the club colours or change the name, among others. I would have thought that all fans would agree that these were sensible and understand that someone, at present DFCSS, should be able to defend these traditions. The reality is that they may not work, but they were an important part of the negotiations between the then owners of the ordinary shares and FPS.

See reply to Deeranged

[Deeranged]

All Dee fans???? I don't agree with that.

In a perfect world dfcss and all fans would be singing from the same hymn sheet, clearly from this thread they are not.

I know dayster wasn't trying to mis lead but it's an important difference, dfcss secured the entrenched rights for dfcss......and possibly the fans If the fans happen to agree with them.

Dfcss can't have it both ways they either represent the society or the fans....they appear to choose when it suits them.

At the end of the day dfcss responsibility is to their members.

Reminds me a bit of when the SNP think they represent all Scots....they don't and they do what's best for the SNP.

Of course you're right, at the end of the day (hate that cliche) you have to be a member of the society to be represented by the current holder of the shares. However the option is there to have a say or to not have a say, totally understand that some will feel it's not right that this share issue exists but reality is that it does, FPS agreed to it and it needs to be managed to the best benefit of the club as a whole - and that includes the fans. Is DFCSS the best body to do that? I'd have them well before the DSA I'll say that much.

Let's see what comes out of the society board meeting tonight, I trust them to do the right thing for the club and all fans.

I agree the way this thread has gone shows division amongst the fans and it's fairly representative of the support as a whole. There are two or three vociferously arguing either side, four or five interjecting occasionally and the vast majority sitting back apathetic on the subject. It was that apathy and acceptance that got us into certain situations we've been in in the past. Would be good if more people actively participated, whatever their view, by joining the society and making their voices heard. Otherwise the cycle of us and them will continue.

To be honest I've pretty much lost interest in the politics side of it and couldn't care less what happens any more. My match day experience has become a grind and I'm sick hearing about how we're moving to a shiny new stadium when everything points to us moving across the road or even amalgamating with the dayglo mob. I'll follow the club faithfully and with delusions of potential greatness ahead until something happens and I'll make my call at that time but right now I see my future Saturdays in ASDA - and not too far into the future either. FPS is already priming the fanbase as a whole to blame the society for this season's almost inevitable relegation; what will they blame the society for next? Failure of the new stadium plans? Amalgamation? Liquidation?

You asked Taintedice a question about his or her trust of FPS earlier in this thread. I will never put what my answer would be to that same question in writing but maybe you'd like to speculate on it?

By the way as an aside, and this is subject to confirmation by an independent observer, I went up Dens Road today and noticed some work has been done on the gates at the bottom of the old stair. For the life of me I swear when I looked up I did not see any hoses - nil - nada - the stairs appeared hoseless. Maybe it was hope springing eternal, maybe I'm just going blind in my old age but I swear I didn't see a single hose. For the record I was driving and heading toward Moncur Crescent.

[Taintedice]

tainted the people who know for sure are the 2 groups directors,especially and more impotantly on the 1st statement,id normally email J Nelms but not much point as he doesna reply to me,drop him an email ,if you dont have it then il give you his email

it's not me calling him a liar and claiming to have factual evidence to back that up.

[Taintedice]

Hi Taintedice.
I suggest that you read post Number 107 where I stated ‘For all I know you could be Dab’. That is somewhat different from calling you a Dab.
In my opinion it is a pity that the forums have Usernames. It would be a lot better if people had to use their own name as happens on Facebook then posters would know exactly who was posting rather than ‘hiding behind’ a Username.

mud sticks and you and your mate are spreading a lot of it

[BCram]

All Dee fans???? I don't agree with that.

In a perfect world dfcss and all fans would be singing from the same hymn sheet, clearly from this thread they are not.

I know dayster wasn't trying to mis lead but it's an important difference, dfcss secured the entrenched rights for dfcss......and possibly the fans If the fans happen to agree with them.

Dfcss can't have it both ways they either represent the society or the fans....they appear to choose when it suits them.

At the end of the day dfcss responsibility is to their members.

Reminds me a bit of when the SNP think they represent all Scots....they don't and they do what's best for the SNP.

That's a very good point about the SNP. I see where you are coming from and now realise that there is no way to square the circle. No matter who is in charge of DFCSS they are not going to be able to represent or claim to represent the fans. They do have a role to play and from attending AGM's etc I think they constantly fret over how they can be a force for good. have you got any suggestions?

[jdfc]

Of course you're right, at the end of the day (hate that cliche) you have to be a member of the society to be represented by the current holder of the shares. However the option is there to have a say or to not have a say, totally understand that some will feel it's not right that this share issue exists but reality is that it does, FPS agreed to it and it needs to be managed to the best benefit of the club as a whole - and that includes the fans. Is DFCSS the best body to do that? I'd have them well before the DSA I'll say that much.

Let's see what comes out of the society board meeting tonight, I trust them to do the right thing for the club and all fans.

I agree the way this thread has gone shows division amongst the fans and it's fairly representative of the support as a whole. There are two or three vociferously arguing either side, four or five interjecting occasionally and the vast majority sitting back apathetic on the subject. It was that apathy and acceptance that got us into certain situations we've been in in the past. Would be good if more people actively participated, whatever their view, by joining the society and making their voices heard. Otherwise the cycle of us and them will continue.

To be honest I've pretty much lost interest in the politics side of it and couldn't care less what happens any more. My match day experience has become a grind and I'm sick hearing about how we're moving to a shiny new stadium when everything points to us moving across the road or even amalgamating with the dayglo mob. I'll follow the club faithfully and with delusions of potential greatness ahead until something happens and I'll make my call at that time but right now I see my future Saturdays in ASDA - and not too far into the future either. FPS is already priming the fanbase as a whole to blame the society for this season's almost inevitable relegation; what will they blame the society for next? Failure of the new stadium plans? Amalgamation? Liquidation?

You asked Taintedice a question about his or her trust of FPS earlier in this thread. I will never put what my answer would be to that same question in writing but maybe you'd like to speculate on it?

By the way as an aside, and this is subject to confirmation by an independent observer, I went up Dens Road today and noticed some work has been done on the gates at the bottom of the old stair. For the life of me I swear when I looked up I did not see any hoses - nil - nada - the stairs appeared hoseless. Maybe it was hope springing eternal, maybe I'm just going blind in my old age but I swear I didn't see a single hose. For the record I was driving and heading toward Moncur Crescent.

I’d like to know what makes you think amalgamation and / or ground sharing is on the cards, I personally just don’t see it

[Returnofrros]

Of course you're right, at the end of the day (hate that cliche) you have to be a member of the society to be represented by the current holder of the shares. However the option is there to have a say or to not have a say, totally understand that some will feel it's not right that this share issue exists but reality is that it does, FPS agreed to it and it needs to be managed to the best benefit of the club as a whole - and that includes the fans. Is DFCSS the best body to do that? I'd have them well before the DSA I'll say that much.

Let's see what comes out of the society board meeting tonight, I trust them to do the right thing for the club and all fans.

I agree the way this thread has gone shows division amongst the fans and it's fairly representative of the support as a whole. There are two or three vociferously arguing either side, four or five interjecting occasionally and the vast majority sitting back apathetic on the subject. It was that apathy and acceptance that got us into certain situations we've been in in the past. Would be good if more people actively participated, whatever their view, by joining the society and making their voices heard. Otherwise the cycle of us and them will continue.

To be honest I've pretty much lost interest in the politics side of it and couldn't care less what happens any more. My match day experience has become a grind and I'm sick hearing about how we're moving to a shiny new stadium when everything points to us moving across the road or even amalgamating with the dayglo mob. I'll follow the club faithfully and with delusions of potential greatness ahead until something happens and I'll make my call at that time but right now I see my future Saturdays in ASDA - and not too far into the future either. FPS is already priming the fanbase as a whole to blame the society for this season's almost inevitable relegation; what will they blame the society for next? Failure of the new stadium plans? Amalgamation? Liquidation?

You asked Taintedice a question about his or her trust of FPS earlier in this thread. I will never put what my answer would be to that same question in writing but maybe you'd like to speculate on it?

By the way as an aside, and this is subject to confirmation by an independent observer, I went up Dens Road today and noticed some work has been done on the gates at the bottom of the old stair. For the life of me I swear when I looked up I did not see any hoses - nil - nada - the stairs appeared hoseless. Maybe it was hope springing eternal, maybe I'm just going blind in my old age but I swear I didn't see a single hose. For the record I was driving and heading toward Moncur Crescent.

I agree with just about all of that.

From a neutrals point of view I see some divide and conquer from FPS and a bit of intransigence from dfcss.

But I do fear the above hit for tat between the two is small beer for the real war coming soon.

Am a tesco/Lidl guy myself.

[Returnofrros]

That's a very good point about the SNP. I see where you are coming from and now realise that there is no way to square the circle. No matter who is in charge of DFCSS they are not going to be able to represent or claim to represent the fans. They do have a role to play and from attending AGM's etc I think they constantly fret over how they can be a force for good. have you got any suggestions?

If I was wanting to build up Dfcss I'd actively recruit and persuade fans to join and give them a reason for joining not just say a fiver gets you a say.....a say in what?, what's their objectives?, why can't they work with FPS?

Now someone might say pay your fiver and you'll find out.....but that's hardly the welcoming organisation I'd want to be part of.

I don't know really Bcram but nothing I've seen or heard from dfcss makes me want to join is that my fault, their fault or just the way it is?

[Taintedice]

Of course you're right, at the end of the day (hate that cliche) you have to be a member of the society to be represented by the current holder of the shares. However the option is there to have a say or to not have a say, totally understand that some will feel it's not right that this share issue exists but reality is that it does, FPS agreed to it and it needs to be managed to the best benefit of the club as a whole - and that includes the fans. Is DFCSS the best body to do that? I'd have them well before the DSA I'll say that much.

Let's see what comes out of the society board meeting tonight, I trust them to do the right thing for the club and all fans.

I agree the way this thread has gone shows division amongst the fans and it's fairly representative of the support as a whole. There are two or three vociferously arguing either side, four or five interjecting occasionally and the vast majority sitting back apathetic on the subject. It was that apathy and acceptance that got us into certain situations we've been in in the past. Would be good if more people actively participated, whatever their view, by joining the society and making their voices heard. Otherwise the cycle of us and them will continue.

To be honest I've pretty much lost interest in the politics side of it and couldn't care less what happens any more. My match day experience has become a grind and I'm sick hearing about how we're moving to a shiny new stadium when everything points to us moving across the road or even amalgamating with the dayglo mob. I'll follow the club faithfully and with delusions of potential greatness ahead until something happens and I'll make my call at that time but right now I see my future Saturdays in ASDA - and not too far into the future either. FPS is already priming the fanbase as a whole to blame the society for this season's almost inevitable relegation; what will they blame the society for next? Failure of the new stadium plans? Amalgamation? Liquidation?

You asked Taintedice a question about his or her trust of FPS earlier in this thread. I will never put what my answer would be to that same question in writing but maybe you'd like to speculate on it?

By the way as an aside, and this is subject to confirmation by an independent observer, I went up Dens Road today and noticed some work has been done on the gates at the bottom of the old stair. For the life of me I swear when I looked up I did not see any hoses - nil - nada - the stairs appeared hoseless. Maybe it was hope springing eternal, maybe I'm just going blind in my old age but I swear I didn't see a single hose. For the record I was driving and heading toward Moncur Crescent.

oh dear, mr angry who wants to sue people still being abusive. You got those facts yet, mr angry? DFCSS had 4000 members in 2010 and did nothing to stop admin 2, there's a fact for you.