O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

The majority of Labour members and voters are remain based?????? Where did you dig that statistic up? The traditional Labour voters voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU.

That was the case in Rotherham and many other towns but far from it nationally. 65% of labour voters voted remain. You may not accept that but there is clear and reliable evidence that non conspiracy theorists can point to. Already linked to at least twice in this thread. We can disagree all we want but clearly Labour are ****ed of they stay as they are as we move increasingly towards A No Deal unless there is action to prevent it. Labour I think know this but know that they can't win. Just a case of taking on board the changing picture - unwillingness to compromise (on both sides, sliding towards no deal default) and then deciding what to do. In light of the dreadful arrogance of the minority of the country now aiming to force us, unwillingly into A No Deal, I hope that they move to prevent it. **** outcome by not as **** as No Deal, so there you are.

[ragingpup]

That's the same FT that said in 2001: “With Greece now trading in euros, few will mourn the death of the drachma,” it predicted. “Membership of the Eurozone offers the prospect of long-term economic stability.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a7059326.html

And Treasury predictions were 500,000 to 800,000 people to lose their jobs immediately after a vote for Brexit.

Unemployment actually fell.

The difference here though is that the FT isn't predicting anything. It is simply looking at the comparison trade deals between US and EU and pointing out the pain facts of what trade benefits we currently get from current trade deals with both, and how losing one and replacing it with extended trading agreement with the US simply doesn't compensate for the losses from the EU deal. That's not forecasting, its basic economic pluses and minuses.

[ragingpup]

That may be true but at this stage a deal does not look like happening so by default we are happy to leave without a deal now because the powers that be set out a deal that was in no way leaving the EU.

But, again, under this deal we would no longer be members of the EU. Its a compromise, on both sides, I wasn't happy with it. But its the best we could do. So we have to compromise.

If you and the hard core won't compromise, fair enough. But you haven't a hope of getting a no deal as parliament, as our elected representatives, recognise that this isn't what the majority in the country want. Bercow has made it clear parliament won't be bullied or ignored. Whatever passes has to have the consent of the Parliament we are supposed to be leaving the EU to give more power to. So no chance of no deal and no compromise will mean stalemate and either 2nd vote or general election via no confidence. Either of which, you will likely lose brexit altogether. Up to you I guess

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Bercow is shamefully biased.

As far as I remember the choice in the referendum was leave or stay, deals wasn't mentioned.

The mandate was leave the EU something that Bercow and others like him should respect.

[ragingpup]

Bercow is shamefully biased.

As far as I remember the choice in the referendum was leave or stay, deals wasn't mentioned.

The mandate was leave the EU something that Bercow and others like him should respect.

Deals were constantly mentioned throughout the referendum campaign, the repeated regain being that getting one would be easy.

Bercow is there to uphold the rules of our Parliament to make sure that rules and procedures are kept to. That may be inconvenient for those who wish to impose an outcome that provenly the majority of the country don't want, but that is the procedure of the parliament that you are campaigning to reempower away from the EU (as you see it)

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Deals were constantly mentioned throughout the referendum campaign, the repeated regain being that getting one would be easy.

Bercow is there to uphold the rules of our Parliament to make sure that rules and procedures are kept to. That may be inconvenient for those who wish to impose an outcome that provenly the majority of the country don't want, but that is the procedure of the parliament that you are campaigning to reempower away from the EU (as you see it)

What a load of tosh

[howdydoo]

What a load of tosh

Complete tosh

[animallittle3]

That was the case in Rotherham and many other towns but far from it nationally. 65% of labour voters voted remain. You may not accept that but there is clear and reliable evidence that non conspiracy theorists can point to. Already linked to at least twice in this thread. We can disagree all we want but clearly Labour are ****ed of they stay as they are as we move increasingly towards A No Deal unless there is action to prevent it. Labour I think know this but know that they can't win. Just a case of taking on board the changing picture - unwillingness to compromise (on both sides, sliding towards no deal default) and then deciding what to do. In light of the dreadful arrogance of the minority of the country now aiming to force us, unwillingly into A No Deal, I hope that they move to prevent it. **** outcome by not as **** as No Deal, so there you are.

I'd like to see the regional breakdown of your claim raging that 65% of Labour voters are remainers .

There's some huge brexit areas in the North East , North West , Yorkshire , North Midlands , East and West Midlands and Wales .

[howdydoo]

Yes, but how many times? Leaving the EU with a deal, as most voters expected, is still leaving the EU. That is where you and I differ hugely. And where you and the majority of the UK voters differ hugely.

The majority of the UK want to leave with a secured deal that will minimise damage to the economy. The majority of the UK do not want to leave with a No Deal.

It's as plain and simple as that.

The offer on the table isn't a deal. Any deal is OK for you as long as you get your way and we remain part of the European union.

I couldn't care less whether there's a deal or not. I'd like to see freedom of movement of EU citizens and some actually see some evidence of realistic discussion on future trade. All possible but we decided to negotiate against 27 countries with a bunch of politicians who voted to remain and only have their self interests at heart.

It's as plain as simple as that.

[ragingpup]

I'd like to see the regional breakdown of your claim raging that 65% of Labour voters are remainers .

There's some huge brexit areas in the North East , North West , Yorkshire , North Midlands , East and West Midlands and Wales .

That I agree with animal. If you live in those areas then it must feel like labour gone to brexit land. But nationally you have all the labour voters in the rest of England, Scotland, Wales and NI. The people who dispute the 65% are in the huge minority themselves, backed up with the official figure and our own experience. In my family alone I have 12 close kin who have always voted Labour, are seriously pissed off at Corbyn for allowing Brexit at all (in the only one who wants a deal, many arguments gone by) and all voted either lib Dem or Green. Labour have many voters who aren't traditional 'working class'. My in laws are quite an affluent Jewish family, very middle class but rooted in fairness and social equality.

But if I lived in Yorkshire I guess I wouldnt see it that way