O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[BigLadonOS]

Joining the EU army is already in place and if we stay in the EU we are bound by EU law to participate in it.

http://veteransforbritain.uk/macroneuarmy/

[KerrAvon]

You were saying?

The Treasury keeps the UK under the control of EU austerity policies.
By JOHNREDWOOD | Published: OCTOBER 11, 2018
The UK solemnly goes on complying with all requirements on a member state of the EU. This year they dutifully filed their “2018 National Reform Programme and their 2018 Convergence programme”. The Treasury has long accepted the EU’s demands that we keep throttling back the deficit and move to getting down the debt as a percentage of GDP. There are times when the EU are right about this, but at issue is who makes such a judgement and who actually runs our economic policy? The EU has overdone the austerity in some cases causing more unemployment and lost output than needed. Mr Osborne turned this into the keystone of his economic policy and claimed it as his own, but it was just the UK version of EU economic policy which we were obliged to follow by being members.

The EU duly marked our homework this year and concluded formally “The Council is of the opinion that the UK needs to stand ready to take further measures as of 2018-19 to comply with the provisions of the Stability and Growth Pact”. Presumably seeing that this would go beyond our membership, they mentioned in the supporting text the possibility that we will stay in for another 21 months transition when they would expect this policy to continue to be binding. The Council has instructed the Treasury to keep the nominal growth rate of public spending down to a maximum of 1.6%. That is a real terms cut at current inflation rates.

I want the UK Treasury to step aside from the long shadows cast by the European Semester and to announce a new budget strategy for the years ahead following our departure on 29 March 2019. We need a policy which is kinder to growth and to public service provision than the EU strategy has proved. The PM has said she is ending austerity. This is incompatible with following EU rules beyond next March, and depends on getting our money from the EU to spend at home.

The UK is specifically excluded from any requirement to comply with Eurozone economic policy by virtue of Protocol 15 to the EU treaties. Redwood knows this, but hopes that you don't.

Read his words again and note the words this would go beyond our membership,

[KerrAvon]

Joining the EU army is already in place and if we stay in the EU we are bound by EU law to participate in it.

http://veteransforbritain.uk/macroneuarmy/

Nope. I don't know much about this organisation, but they aren't very objective.

The Lisbon Treaty created the concept of a Common Defence Policy. It specifically states Common Defence will only be established when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides

Note the word 'unanimously'. It can't be changed without a treaty change, which would require a unanimous decision and ratification by member states (with referendums in some states).

I'm sorry, biggy, but you are buying into Leaver scare stories.

[ragingpup]

You were saying?

The Treasury keeps the UK under the control of EU austerity policies.
By JOHNREDWOOD | Published: OCTOBER 11, 2018
The UK solemnly goes on complying with all requirements on a member state of the EU. This year they dutifully filed their “2018 National Reform Programme and their 2018 Convergence programme”. The Treasury has long accepted the EU’s demands that we keep throttling back the deficit and move to getting down the debt as a percentage of GDP. There are times when the EU are right about this, but at issue is who makes such a judgement and who actually runs our economic policy? The EU has overdone the austerity in some cases causing more unemployment and lost output than needed. Mr Osborne turned this into the keystone of his economic policy and claimed it as his own, but it was just the UK version of EU economic policy which we were obliged to follow by being members.

The EU duly marked our homework this year and concluded formally “The Council is of the opinion that the UK needs to stand ready to take further measures as of 2018-19 to comply with the provisions of the Stability and Growth Pact”. Presumably seeing that this would go beyond our membership, they mentioned in the supporting text the possibility that we will stay in for another 21 months transition when they would expect this policy to continue to be binding. The Council has instructed the Treasury to keep the nominal growth rate of public spending down to a maximum of 1.6%. That is a real terms cut at current inflation rates.

I want the UK Treasury to step aside from the long shadows cast by the European Semester and to announce a new budget strategy for the years ahead following our departure on 29 March 2019. We need a policy which is kinder to growth and to public service provision than the EU strategy has proved. The PM has said she is ending austerity. This is incompatible with following EU rules beyond next March, and depends on getting our money from the EU to spend at home.

The EU are recommending this and we are choosing to comply. Choosing is the key point. We don't have to go along with it if we choose not to. Redwood is, in true Eurosceptic stylie, blaming the EU for policies that we choose to follow.

[ragingpup]

Basically whatever the EU does Remainers will defend it unquestioningly, it's like a cult to them.

I think that this flurry of posts prove more is that some people will distort fact and even create fiction to attack the EU. There is much to be critical of, but the fact that even Kerr is running rings around Leave posters, pointing out obvious flaws in repeated evidence for arguments against the EU, speaks volumes about the fact that the arguments are transparently flimsy.

[ragingpup]

Every time we have voted no to a new law or a change to existing law in the EU where yes has won. Does that not count in your book?

How about the fact that the UK government wanted to end austerity measures but were forced to continue them by the EU.

Like I have said many times on this thread I am sick and tired of educating people on here about what the EU does and if you really want to know these things go and find out for yourself instead of wanting everything put on a plate for you.

The problem here is that you are not willing to dig in to the workings of the EU but are more than happy to believe the brainwashing of remoaners and their propaganda machine.

Try thinking for yourself for once.

The EU have not forced us to continue austerity measures. We have chosen to do this ourselves. Our government can end these whenever they want.

So you say "Every time we have voted no to a new law or a change to existing law in the EU where yes has won" - I'm sorry you feel that I am making you do all the work on research but I have researched this and my research tells me that the UK has successfully agreed 95% of new laws/law amendments with the EU. 95% we get our way.

Yet you say we never get our way. So all I keep asking you to do is present your evidence for this. I have tried but have found different to you https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts...-uk-influence/

You seem to want to resort back to the terms of our entry (agreeing to fishing quotas, not being able to deal with other countries etc). These are not laws being forced on us, they are terms that we agreed on to take the benefits of the common market.

[ragingpup]

I find raging a really good and intelligent poster with a real social conscience .

He's a supporter of Corbyn and his quest to fight the working class corner with the policies laid out in the Labour Party's last election manifesto .

What I find baffling is that Corbyn would find it impossible to implement his policies whilst in government and locked in to the EU in it's present form , even a People's Bank would be a non starter from what I've read recently .

The best the Labour Party could do within the EU is a Blair type government .

The four so called freedoms which in turn gives access to the single market lock country's in to accepting the neoliberal rhetoric , it's as clear as the nose on your face .

I find it bewildering the left including the trade unions and many in the Labour Party can't see it .

I think that the trade unions, like most of us, are willing to suffer the 'cons' of EU membership due to the 40 years of our being intertwined with the EU. Trade unions, as a primary driving factor, are reluctant to risk economic harm to their members.

I'm interested in what Labour would not be able to do due to EU laws should it come to power. What do you have in mind? Don't really know much about a 'People's Bank'?

[BigLadonOS]

The UK is specifically excluded from any requirement to comply with Eurozone economic policy by virtue of Protocol 15 to the EU treaties. Redwood knows this, but hopes that you don't.

Read his words again and note the words this would go beyond our membership,

He means beyond our membership of the EU after the 29th of March 2019 as of that date we would no longer be members of the EU.

[BigLadonOS]

Nope. I don't know much about this organisation, but they aren't very objective.

The Lisbon Treaty created the concept of a Common Defence Policy. It specifically states Common Defence will only be established when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides

Note the word 'unanimously'. It can't be changed without a treaty change, which would require a unanimous decision and ratification by member states (with referendums in some states).

I'm sorry, biggy, but you are buying into Leaver scare stories.

What is it about you lot that do not understand this?

This was all done prior to our even having an in or out vote in 2016. If you had voted to stay in the EU then we had already signed up to it. It has nothing at all to do with Brexit so why are you trying to link it to that.

[BigLadonOS]

The EU are recommending this and we are choosing to comply. Choosing is the key point. We don't have to go along with it if we choose not to. Redwood is, in true Eurosceptic stylie, blaming the EU for policies that we choose to follow.

Unreal just unreal. The simple fact that we are choosing to go with it and keep our people in austerity and continue to keep the EU happy while food banks are still needed is yet another reason why we need rid of this dictatorship.