OT Another world cup

[Andy_Faber]

Except that I have grounds for my suspicions as regards Trump and Farage on the basis that they have both displayed racist intent.

I still don’t understand your previous comment about Khan’s reluctance to comment if the team’s ‘immigrants’ had been ‘all white’ when they largely are and I don’t know why you believe that Khan is racist...what has he done to suggest that?

I didn’t say he was racist. I don’t believe he is.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think it is important to distinguish racism from islamophobia at this juncture, as one can see where this is headed. Islam is not a race - I know white brown black followers of Islam, and equally white, brown and black that do not follow Islam. Islam is a religion and not a race. So lets not confuse the two and throw inflammatory "racist" suggestions around to those who are Islamaphobic.

Let us instead deal with Islam as a different religion, not a skin tone issue.

Religious bigotry is the by-word of modern society, and indeed going back into history - consider the jews vs jesus squabble, the crusades, catholicism vs protestantism since the time of Luther. The list is endless. Disagreeing over beliefs is a primary characteristic of human existence. My God is better than yours. This is why I believe religion is the root of all evil.

The following extract from a website may exemplify what I mean "....the Quran posits an enormous qualitative distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims that is hard to miss. Believers are loved by God, whereas infidels are hated to the extent that they are tortured for eternity (3:32, 4:56) merely for not believing. Muslims are told not to take unbelievers as friends (3:28) and to shun them (3:118). Those outside the circle are called “helpers of evil” (25:55), “wicked” (4:160), “fond of lies” (5:42) and compared to the worst of animals (8:55, 7:176, 7:179). Muslims are told to be merciful to each other, but ruthless to those outside of the faith (48:29). Violence is also sanctioned against those who are obstinate against Islamic rule (8:12-13, 9:5)."

No doubt there are some who would discredit this analysis, others that would believe it implicitly, and those like me that actually do not know the depth of the truths therein. I simply read it and note that, if the quotes are true, and other religions preach similar intolerance, this explains a lot. I do not use Islam here for any bias, but simply to exemplify the point of religious intolerances.

Doubtless the christian holy book may also have bad things to say about non believers, I don't know, I've not read it and equally appalling behaviour has been inspired or condoned by it. But what is important is that all religions seems to fight for supremacy and the high ground not by preaching peaceful or pleasant, loving thoughts but by seeking to eradicate others. Very much stick, not so much carrot.

So at their core, all religions detest one another for being "wrong". People on the other hand can, by and large, chose to be a fundamentalist believer (eg ISIS et al) an adherent or a casual observer of the positive elements within their chosen religion. Or have none at all.

What it boils down to is that those who occupy the extremes of fundamentalism destroy the credibility of whichever religion they follow - think KKK and bible belt US christianity, the aforementioned ISIS, the extreme Zionists, the religions hatred and slaughter as part of the Indian partition. Its not just religions, but the absence of any religious belief is equally destructive in its extreme - Hitler and Pol Pot leap to mind.

As with most things, religions in moderation are fine, but like obesity, alcoholism, drug addiction etc, when its taken to an extreme it becomes destructive or self destructive.

Its easy to become anti Islam, but let those that do first cast out the mote in their own eye (or whatever the biblical expression is) and dont tar everyone with the same brush. Focus on bringing down the extremes, under whatever name/cause etc, but dont play the "racism card" against an issue that isn't even one of race.

[ramAnag]

I think it is important to distinguish racism from islamophobia at this juncture, as one can see where this is headed. Islam is not a race - I know white brown black followers of Islam, and equally white, brown and black that do not follow Islam. Islam is a religion and not a race. So lets not confuse the two and throw inflammatory "racist" suggestions around to those who are Islamaphobic.

Let us instead deal with Islam as a different religion, not a skin tone issue.

Religious bigotry is the by-word of modern society, and indeed going back into history - consider the jews vs jesus squabble, the crusades, catholicism vs protestantism since the time of Luther. The list is endless. Disagreeing over beliefs is a primary characteristic of human existence. My God is better than yours. This is why I believe religion is the root of all evil.

The following extract from a website may exemplify what I mean "....the Quran posits an enormous qualitative distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims that is hard to miss. Believers are loved by God, whereas infidels are hated to the extent that they are tortured for eternity (3:32, 4:56) merely for not believing. Muslims are told not to take unbelievers as friends (3:28) and to shun them (3:118). Those outside the circle are called “helpers of evil” (25:55), “wicked” (4:160), “fond of lies” (5:42) and compared to the worst of animals (8:55, 7:176, 7:179). Muslims are told to be merciful to each other, but ruthless to those outside of the faith (48:29). Violence is also sanctioned against those who are obstinate against Islamic rule (8:12-13, 9:5)."

No doubt there are some who would discredit this analysis, others that would believe it implicitly, and those like me that actually do not know the depth of the truths therein. I simply read it and note that, if the quotes are true, and other religions preach similar intolerance, this explains a lot. I do not use Islam here for any bias, but simply to exemplify the point of religious intolerances.

Doubtless the christian holy book may also have bad things to say about non believers, I don't know, I've not read it and equally appalling behaviour has been inspired or condoned by it. But what is important is that all religions seems to fight for supremacy and the high ground not by preaching peaceful or pleasant, loving thoughts but by seeking to eradicate others. Very much stick, not so much carrot.

So at their core, all religions detest one another for being "wrong". People on the other hand can, by and large, chose to be a fundamentalist believer (eg ISIS et al) an adherent or a casual observer of the positive elements within their chosen religion. Or have none at all.

What it boils down to is that those who occupy the extremes of fundamentalism destroy the credibility of whichever religion they follow - think KKK and bible belt US christianity, the aforementioned ISIS, the extreme Zionists, the religions hatred and slaughter as part of the Indian partition. Its not just religions, but the absence of any religious belief is equally destructive in its extreme - Hitler and Pol Pot leap to mind.

As with most things, religions in moderation are fine, but like obesity, alcoholism, drug addiction etc, when its taken to an extreme it becomes destructive or self destructive.

Its easy to become anti Islam, but let those that do first cast out the mote in their own eye (or whatever the biblical expression is) and dont tar everyone with the same brush. Focus on bringing down the extremes, under whatever name/cause etc, but dont play the "racism card" against an issue that isn't even one of race.

Blimey...and to think this started as a cricket thread.

Agree with much of that GP, though I think you’re on a higher intellectual level than some of the, shall we say...lowest common denominators...who couldn’t (or wouldn’t) be able (or bothered) to actually differentiate between racism and islamophobia and would just regard anyone of Asian appearance as a ‘...kin Paki’ or something similar, so the ‘racist suggestion’ almost certainly stands.

[ramAnag]

I didn’t say he was racist. I don’t believe he is.

You did say that your ‘suspicion of Khan’s agenda matches mine of Trump and Farage’, and I most certainly do believe that Trump and Farage are both racist.
Still genuinely don’t understand what you’re suggesting about Khan.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Blimey...and to think this started as a cricket thread.

Agree with much of that GP, though I think you’re on a higher intellectual level than some of the, shall we say...lowest common denominators...who couldn’t (or wouldn’t) be able (or bothered) to actually differentiate between racism and islamophobia and would just regard anyone of Asian appearance as a ‘...kin Paki’ or something similar, so the ‘racist suggestion’ almost certainly stands.

I did consider making it OT OT !!

[AdiSalisbury]

In other news, we won the cricket world cup, fully deserved and Aussies are still crying! Kiwi's have been dignified in defeat. Great result.

[Geoff Parkstone]

And the Indians are crying, Tendulkar doesn't think it should be done on boundaries but rather a second superover. That may be so but that wasn't the rule at the time. And what if the second superover is then drawn....

Just glad it wasn't decided on wickets lost, which may have been more sensible, but by which we'd have lost 😳

[Andy_Faber]

Just glad it wasn't decided on wickets lost, which may have been more sensible, but by which we'd have lost 😳

As a matter of interest gp and whoever, did you only watch it because it was free to air?

[AngryRam]

Not sure anyone’s tried to ‘tar you with the rascist brush’, MoP and it’s not my argument anyway.

The point though surely is...it is ‘immigrants’ who are frequently ‘tarred with the same brush’...not by you, but by the likes of the rather more significant Mr. Trump who went down precisely that path again yesterday.

The U.S. is probably the most ‘culturally diverse’ and multicultural nation on the planet...its success, like that of the England cricket team, is to be celebrated but sadly there are all too many, Trump and Farage to name but two, who choose to be peculiarly ‘selective’ when it comes to the ‘acceptability’ or otherwise of various migrant origins and appearances.

Wrong on Trump.. He wants to control the boarders, nothing wrong with that.
What did he say yesterday that was so outrageous? Nothing really, it is a comment aimed at everyone. If you like don’t like it here, leave. Outrageous. The left have turned it into a racial issue and you have swallowed it up..

[AdiSalisbury]

As a matter of interest gp and whoever, did you only watch it because it was free to air?

I'd have listened to it on the radio otherwise. Possibly might have bought a sky sports pass, will be doing so next month for ashes and Derby fixtures. Village teams are folding regularly and inspiring a new generation with accessible coverage will go a long way to help fix the issue.