OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

I would never feel foolish responding to you Sweetpea. It cheers me up. Low hanging fruit i'm afraid.

I would wait the 50 years, if it meant my club still existed and the following 50 years we won everything. At least my kids would enjoy it. It's not all about you!! What's your point?
Are you saying you would sacrifice long term stability for short term gain? Is that what you are all about? Gotta have it now mentality?

Bring something new to the discussion and we can discuss. Bloody hell even Swaledale and I nearly agreed on a few points. He lost the plot eventually but I feel we had a moment.. Touching really.

F+

Okay...amongst all the typical, Angry bluster let’s sieve through that attempt at a response.

1) Yet again you haven’t answered the question...why is it a good idea?

2) ‘I would wait fifty years...at least my kids would enjoy it’. Who are you kidding? You’re about sixty...in another half century I’d guess your kids are likely to be of pensionable age...you’ve just sentenced them to 50 years of underachievement and struggle. Great plan!

3) ‘Gotta have it now mentality’...we had it! How else do you explain the position of this tiny island country being amongst the wealthiest nations of the World. We were doing okay and we were achieving that as long term major players within the EU...that situation is now being jeopardised by an idea that even its own supporters suggest will involve pain and the need for fifty years of recovery. Great swap!

4) ‘He (Swale) lost the plot’. No he didn’t...that’s just delusional on your part. He answered rationally and logically. For a brief period you too were untypically lucid before resorting to yet more tiresome, personalised bluster.

Finally...it’s difficult to come up with a non repetitive argument when no answers are forthcoming from the advocates of something I, rightly or wrongly, regard as being immensely damaging to our country.

Of course I may be wrong however I still await an explanation from you for how something that was initially described as a panacea for all our economic ills but is now likely to lead to fifty years of economic pain can still be a good idea.

You support it...you answer it...but a ‘grown up’ response would make a welcome change so please don’t waste my time with your infantile and failed attempts at point scoring.

[ramAnag]

To introduce a football context...if a new owner took over at Derby tomorrow and announced how privileged he felt to be running the club but warned that it would most likely take another fifty years to get us back to the top flight...how thrilled would you be?

Actually see my post a couple up where I make the same pain and suffering analogy, yet still we support.

I think the fundamental difficulty with your comparison is that you have to assume that Derby were presently in catastrophic management, and were about to be merged at board level with Forest, Chesterfield, Mansfield, Notts County and several east midlands minor teams. All our TV revenue would be taken of us and allocated to Spennymoor, Macclesfield and a few local clubs that we are trying to persuade to join us, or other weak clubs in our "alliance" to help bring their standards up.

We also have to consider that all our fans would be incorporated with Forest fans and others that we were merged with to form a single common fan army (maybe even a barmy one) and that we would be forced to take on players from local non league sides who would have equal rights to play for us regardless of ability.

We would also be forced to open our expensively developed academy to players from all clubs, who could then, having improved their lot, go back to their original clubs after a couple of years of training and improve those clubs - not ours.

There's a bit more to it which may help you appreciate that sometimes pain is worth it to avoid a bigger catastrophe

Geoff...maybe you’re overthinking the analogy, albeit cleverly.

I take your points and they are well made if a little fanciful, but ultimately the only ‘catastrophe’ facing the UK is the entirely home made and self inflicted one named Brexit, imo and the bottom line remains...who in their right mind, at either DCFC or UK level would sign up to something which may or may not produce some sort of unquantifiable harvest in fifty years time?

Even you at your most mischievous must recognise that the goal posts have been moved since June 2016.

[AngryRam]

Okay...amongst all the typical, Angry bluster let’s sieve through that attempt at a response.

1) Yet again you haven’t answered the question...why is it a good idea?

2) ‘I would wait fifty years...at least my kids would enjoy it’. Who are you kidding? You’re about sixty...in another half century I’d guess your kids are likely to be of pensionable age...you’ve just sentenced them to 50 years of underachievement and struggle. Great plan!

3) ‘Gotta have it now mentality’...we had it! How else do you explain the position of this tiny island country being amongst the wealthiest nations of the World. We were doing okay and we were achieving that as long term major players within the EU...that situation is now being jeopardised by an idea that even its own supporters suggest will involve pain and the need for fifty years of recovery. Great swap!

4) ‘He (Swale) lost the plot’. No he didn’t...that’s just delusional on your part. He answered rationally and logically. For a brief period you too were untypically lucid before resorting to yet more tiresome, personalised bluster.

Finally...it’s difficult to come up with a non repetitive argument when no answers are forthcoming from the advocates of something I, rightly or wrongly, regard as being immensely damaging to our country.

Of course I may be wrong however I still await an explanation from you for how something that was initially described as a panacea for all our economic ills but is now likely to lead to fifty years of economic pain can still be a good idea.

You support it...you answer it...but a ‘grown up’ response would make a welcome change so please don’t waste my time with your infantile and failed attempts at point scoring.

I only do infantile. You know that. Cockney bovver boy aint I.

1. We've answered the bloody why question but yet again you fail to understand the points. Numerous people have made their points about leaving but you it appears won't be satisfied until someone says what you want to hear.

2. You came up with a ridiculous analogy and all you have got is my kids will be about 60. Really!! Seriously get a life man.

3. It was a sarky comment to said ridiculous analogy.

4. I think you will find that Swaley did revert to type.

Point scoring is easy with you.. Way too easy.

Detention.

[ramAnag]

I only do infantile. You know that. Cockney bovver boy aint I.

1. We've answered the bloody why question but yet again you fail to understand the points. Numerous people have made their points about leaving but you it appears won't be satisfied until someone says what you want to hear.

2. You came up with a ridiculous analogy and all you have got is my kids will be about 60. Really!! Seriously get a life man.

3. It was a sarky comment to said ridiculous analogy.

4. I think you will find that Swaley did revert to type.

Point scoring is easy with you.. Way too easy.

Detention.

Sorry...along with being a privileged, ultra left, cardigan and slipper wearing, pipe smoking piece of low hanging fruit etc, I must be really, really thick...so bear with me...

I know there is talk of the EU being at fault for being undemocratic...I know there are concerns about the future possibility of an EU army...I even understand your personal concerns about other poorer countries being too dependent on the wealthier ones but where oh where have you (or ‘we’ as you now seem to be describing yourself) answered that crucial question?

How is it a good idea for us to enter a world of national financial pain for a period that even your own supporters have suggested may last for up to half a century?

Give it another go...spell it out...patronise me...sell it to the electorate. No more threats about the 17.8m rising up if they don’t get their way, no more half arsed insults, no more wannabe a teacher and pretend to mark people’s ‘work’. Just explain - in really, really little words if it helps - how is setting this country back financially to the extent that it may, according to Rees-Mogg (no privilege there) and others, take half a century to recover whilst making us ever more isolated...going to benefit our nation?

The floor is yours...no sidetracking, no pontificating...just indulge me this one last time and answer. How?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I could throw into the debate the fact that staying could set us back 75 years! Who can tell, but against that setting 50 isn't bad. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that without Brexit all would be rosy in the garden.

This decision has always been about trading off negatives. The question is, will the pain you allude to be more or less negative than existing under an undemocratic autocratic and corrupt institution that is pursuing objectives that are ultra vires its own initial intent that we subscribed to under Heath.

The trade benefits (or loss of them) and probable economic downside of leaving vs the institutional freedoms and loss of independence of staying.

What is greatly ironic is that you as a self confessed Liberal prefer the options of economic advantage as if a capitalist. Equally the more capitalist leaning Angry is supporting the Liberal freedoms of self determination and independent thought.

Strange fruit....

[Trickytreesreds]

I didn't know what I was voting for.
Remainers are much more knowledgable
Tommy Robinson running rings around someone lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VsZBLBgphU


Still, they can watch a good film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwslRDTyzU



This sense of humour outbreak, comes with an apology from TTR productions*

[AngryRam]

I could throw into the debate the fact that staying could set us back 75 years! Who can tell, but against that setting 50 isn't bad. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that without Brexit all would be rosy in the garden.

This decision has always been about trading off negatives. The question is, will the pain you allude to be more or less negative than existing under an undemocratic autocratic and corrupt institution that is pursuing objectives that are ultra vires its own initial intent that we subscribed to under Heath.

The trade benefits (or loss of them) and probable economic downside of leaving vs the institutional freedoms and loss of independence of staying.

What is greatly ironic is that you as a self confessed Liberal prefer the options of economic advantage as if a capitalist. Equally the more capitalist leaning Angry is supporting the Liberal freedoms of self determination and independent thought.

Strange fruit....

Careful you will confuse him with all those words. I think it's better we keep to small sentences.

I did elude to something similar to your last point in an earlier post. The so called big business that supports Farage and the likes have more to gain from staying in and increased globalisation. Big business runs the EU. Surely that is against everything the left stands for. It's all arse about face.
Once we leave, we can start to move forward. We can start to talk to other nations about deals. But we have to leave first.
Exciting times once we finally get out.

[AngryRam]

I didn't know what I was voting for.
Remainers are much more knowledgable
Tommy Robinson running rings around someone lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VsZBLBgphU


Still, they can watch a good film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwslRDTyzU



This sense of humour outbreak, comes with an apology from TTR productions*

We don't do humour.. It turns them into victims. Wasted on here.

Actually Boris as a little kid was quite worrying..

[ramAnag]

I could throw into the debate the fact that staying could set us back 75 years! Who can tell, but against that setting 50 isn't bad. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that without Brexit all would be rosy in the garden.

This decision has always been about trading off negatives. The question is, will the pain you allude to be more or less negative than existing under an undemocratic autocratic and corrupt institution that is pursuing objectives that are ultra vires its own initial intent that we subscribed to under Heath.

The trade benefits (or loss of them) and probable economic downside of leaving vs the institutional freedoms and loss of independence of staying.

What is greatly ironic is that you as a self confessed Liberal prefer the options of economic advantage as if a capitalist. Equally the more capitalist leaning Angry is supporting the Liberal freedoms of self determination and independent thought.

Strange fruit....

I don’t think everything is rosy in the EU garden GP, but we have been doing quite well as members...if it ain’t broken don’t fix it...just seek to improve.

I didn’t initially ‘allude to the pain’...Angry did and I simply don’t recognise how this ‘autocratic’ EU institution is having such a massively negative impact upon the well being of UK citizens.

Capitalism and Liberalism are not mutually exclusive. I fully recognise the benefits of socially responsible and ethical capitalism and clearly much depends upon ‘economic advantage’ meaning I have no problem with it whatsoever and am wholly in favour of self determination and independent thought. Imo we will be losing more freedoms than we gain by leaving the EU.

Beyond that...still waiting Angry...or was that it? ‘Once we leave, we can start to move forward. We can start to talk to other nations about deals’. Is that the best you’ve got? Got to say...I expected better.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I simply don’t recognise how this ‘autocratic’ EU institution is having such a massively negative impact upon the well being of UK citizens.

Nor did Neville Chamberlain, but that didnt turn out to good as an option in the next 10 years