O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[Paul Waring]

The whole Brexit argument seems fatally mired in disinformation and I admit to being confused by many aspects. However, I do travel regualrly to the west of Ireland and visit businesses in Tralee, Athlone, Limerick, Killarney, Clifden and Sligo: I can honestly say I have not met a single person who is urging the Irish government to reach a deal with the UK. Rather the mood seems to be one of regret with a slight but growing hostility towards the English. As for Labour I suspect they will be virtually destroyed at the next election as Brexit party members will return to the Tories or reach an accommodation. The idea of a similar arrangement between Labour and the Lib Dems is I think illusionary. I noted yesterday's poll which showed a shockingly high proportion of Labour voters in 2017 stating they would ditch the party. Contrary to Millerbill though the ratio of those leaving to support Remain parties outnumbered those proposing to vote Tory or Brexit Party by 4 to 1.

[rolymiller]

Even the CBI are saying this morning we are not ready for a no deal Brexit. Does that not worry you brexiteers on here?

[rolymiller]

...and just the point I have been trying to make...

[Paul Waring]

...and just the point I have been trying to make...

rolymiller, your views on this are generally reasonable but ears seem closed to reason. Some Brexit supporters on here seem to have convinced themselves that the EU is a right wing free trade unelected cabal determined to foster widespread youth unemployment. They seem to think leaving will usher in some Socialistic nirvana but I don't think Johnson, Farage and the ERG quite have that in mind. And if they are right then the idea of a high tax interventionist society prospering in close proximity to the EU seems rather naive. And like most Brits they are entirely ignorant of the Irish dimension. Far from the Irish urging a deal on their government polls have repeatedly shown that any Irish party moving to an accommodation with the UK would be destoyed politically. Talk of a "betrayal" over the Second Irish referendum is rubbish. I was there. Since joining the EU Irish living standards rocketted and massive amounts of EU money went into places like Limerick. The Irish shocked themselves with the No vote and quickly realised they could kiss goodbye to all the shiny new tractors. When reality dawned they were more than grateful to reverse the decision.

[MillerBill]

Will that EU puppet of a prime minister start listening.The Irish Central Bank have said if Varadkar does not bin this toxic backstop no deal will be done and Ireland will be in freefall.The food exports that come through UK ports are enormous and the Irish economy would collapse.Varadkar, stop being told what to do from Brussels and look after your own people because the EU are using you as a political football for their own interest.

[MillerBill]

rolymiller, your views on this are generally reasonable but ears seem closed to reason. Some Brexit supporters on here seem to have convinced themselves that the EU is a right wing free trade unelected cabal determined to foster widespread youth unemployment. They seem to think leaving will usher in some Socialistic nirvana but I don't think Johnson, Farage and the ERG quite have that in mind. And if they are right then the idea of a high tax interventionist society prospering in close proximity to the EU seems rather naive. And like most Brits they are entirely ignorant of the Irish dimension. Far from the Irish urging a deal on their government polls have repeatedly shown that any Irish party moving to an accommodation with the UK would be destoyed politically. Talk of a "betrayal" over the Second Irish referendum is rubbish. I was there. Since joining the EU Irish living standards rocketted and massive amounts of EU money went into places like Limerick. The Irish shocked themselves with the No vote and quickly realised they could kiss goodbye to all the shiny new tractors. When reality dawned they were more than grateful to reverse the decision.

Almost laughable but really depressing, your remark about youth unemployment!!Tell that to the kids in Italy,Spain,Greece and France where they have been coming over here in droves to find work.The EU has treat them like rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WanChaiMiller]

Will that EU puppet of a prime minister start listening.The Irish Central Bank have said if Varadkar does not bin this toxic backstop no deal will be done and Ireland will be in freefall.The food exports that come through UK ports are enormous and the Irish economy would collapse.Varadkar, stop being told what to do from Brussels and look after your own people because the EU are using you as a political football for their own interest.

Just totally blinkered by Brexit. Ever considered you may be totally wrong

[rolymiller]

Paul Waring? Kempo/ Monty alert anyone? Be wary.

[MillerBill]

The Irish were not told to have another referendum. They voted down the first draft of the Lisbon Treaty and requested changes. The EU made those changes. The Irish government put the updated draft back to the people. The second draft was voted through with a 60% majority.

Explain what is wrong with that process?

They were conned in to it by Brussels with the support of the Irish elite establishment.The bye election at Brecon,although Libs won it, showed more voted for leave than remain even though the remoaners banded together to give it their best ever shot.

[WanChaiMiller]

They were conned in to it by Brussels with the support of the Irish elite establishment.

How did they force 60% of the Irish people to vote it through?