OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Being prepared for the ‘primary two functions’ is rather different from your initial ‘die a death and happily kill others’ suggestion.

I think the above portrayal suggests an elitist view of those who can only operate in a ruthless, cold hearted and robotic manner and are completely dispensable. Possibly not the ‘career orientated individuals’ you also describe but then they are probably not the front line ‘die or happily kill’ brand you began with.

Oddly I probably share your ‘old fashioned pacifist, a conscie perhaps’ outlook. I certainly and successfully dissuaded all of my children from joining the armed forces but I do think they do other things other than kill or be killed, not least at times of natural disaster, protecting the innocent, and erecting temporary bridges etc at times of flood.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Fair point, their secondary role as stand in emergency services personnel is one I had not reflected upon

[Trickytreesreds]

Oddly I probably share your ‘old fashioned pacifist, a conscie perhaps’ outlook. I certainly and successfully dissuaded all of my children from joining the armed forces

And teachers don't force their political leaning on the young eh?


QED

[ramAnag]

Oddly I probably share your ‘old fashioned pacifist, a conscie perhaps’ outlook. I certainly and successfully dissuaded all of my children from joining the armed forces

And teachers don't force their political leaning on the young eh?


QED

Htf is that QED you utter pillock and wtf has it got to do with me being a teacher?

When I refer to ‘my children’ I don’t mean the children I taught...I mean the children I brought up and am a father to and no, I didn’t ‘force’ any political leanings on them but I am proud to say that they have all turned into decent minded adults who are wholly opposed to bullying and racism.

Now run along and take your obsession with me having been a teacher with you.

[Trickytreesreds]

Htf is that QED you utter pillock and wtf has it got to do with me being a teacher?

When I refer to ‘my children’ I don’t mean the children I taught...I mean the children I brought up and am a father to and no, I didn’t ‘force’ any political leanings on them but I am proud to say that they have all turned into decent minded adults who are wholly opposed to bullying and racism.

Now run along and take your obsession with me having been a teacher with you.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, hark at her.

[AngryRam]

Htf is that QED you utter pillock and wtf has it got to do with me being a teacher?

When I refer to ‘my children’ I don’t mean the children I taught...I mean the children I brought up and am a father to and no, I didn’t ‘force’ any political leanings on them but I am proud to say that they have all turned into decent minded adults who are wholly opposed to bullying and racism.

Now run along and take your obsession with me having been a teacher with you.

Don’t Angry, leave it.
No drama here.

[swaledale]

That is the place of the idealist, rather than the pragmatist? Many years ago I would, and did, share your views on a lot of these things rA, but have slowly come to realise that they have no traction in real life.

The pursuit of equality is a senseless pursuit, for it can never be achieved. All people have different skill sets, some of which are in greater demand than others: and are remunerated accordingly.

The skill sets applicable to the armed forces are an ability to die a death and happily kill other people, to do what you are told and to learn to do whatever you are told to do to carry out your job. For which you are remunerated sufficiently to be attracted to the role in sufficient numbers.

So the lives lost were not "unnecessary" but were a direct result of the individual knowingly accepting the risk, taking up the job and its risk premium enhanced remuneration. Nobody forced the individuals to take up that job and remuneration package (contrast the two world wars where conscription existed).

Every death is unfortunate, sad for all the relatives and friends etc, but when you voluntarily put yourself out there in that position, it's not unnecessary. One could almost argue that its disrespectful to those killed to describe what they were doing as unnecessary.

Clearly the remuneration package is not attractive enough as the Armed Forces are not meeting their recruitment targets (inded haven't for a number of years) and having difficulty attracting people.!

I doubt that it was the remuneration package that was the attraction for the front line personnel, more that it as the best job offer, together with skills training that was available to many, which would enable better employment post armed forces. Now with effectively full employment (classed as below 4.5%) it seems it isn't an attractive career choice.

Of course that begs the question just where will the labour force come from post Brexit? There are going to be a lot of low paid service industry, agriculture, processing carer and NHS jobs available with no takers!

[MadAmster]

Lucky for you then Geoff that sufficient people have volunteered their lives so you can speak so freely But the 243,000 who died in two world wars didn't volunteer they were conscripted

Not sure where you get the 243,000 from Mista unless that is the figure of conscripts who died and the other 643,000 were volunteers. 886,000 members of the UK Armed Forces died in World War I. That total soared way over a million when WWII is added in.

[AdiSalisbury]

Of course that begs the question just where will the labour force come from post Brexit? There are going to be a lot of low paid service industry, agriculture, processing carer and NHS jobs available with no takers!

Back on subject, very nicely done. Why would it significantly change? Leaving doesn't mean no immigration and immediate deportation.

[Geoff Parkstone]

The labour will come from exactly the same place that it does now, but potentially on a controlled, rather than open, basis. All we need would be a clearing house / work permit /points system like many other countries have. An end to an open door, but a ticket required. Employers will have to think ahead a bit.

This may mean that there isn't a ready pool of workers from overseas, some may prefer to work in other EU countries, so there may be less availability. In this case those people who voted for Brexit "cos those naughty Eastern Europeans are stealing our jobs" will be more than happy to get off their arses, come off benefits and work for minimum wage (or less). Win win 😉😉