O/T Democracy

[BigLadonOS]

Biglad, you are wrong.

There’s instances of people entering the country in the back of wagons.

Who x-rayed and scanned the contents at the border??

Millions of packages or being sent on NDD through the EU and into the UK.

It’s not all legal either.

That is not the point that was made nor was it the point I was arguing about.

Yes we all know that this already happens hence why the backstop is such rubbish.

Smuggling has always happend and always will so to use the Irish backstop as a be all and end all by the EU is a load of bollix.

[BigLadonOS]

Hopefully history lessons in schools in future will not have to tell kids of the monumental balls up for folks in this country which resulted from coming out of the EU without a deal...

On the other hand lets hope that conversation does not go the same way about the monumental mistake balls up that was made by staying in the EU.

I notice Macron is pushing through his national service plans for 16 year olds ahead of the forthcoming EU army.

[BigLadonOS]

Yes I am more of an idiot than a toff like David Cameron. I wasn't born into privilege like him. A stupid thing to do on my part...Only a comprehensive education for me never got to Eton and all that. I didn't have a pampered ubbringing or a rich mummy and daddy. I have never put my knob in a pigs mouth by the way maybe that's what clever people do...

I wouldn't say that all brexiteers are racist/ xenophobes, I know a number of lefties who voted for Brexit who abhor such views. If you reread what I posted I said that if that was the reason certain people voted for Brexit.

By the way, I don't care if the opinion polls are wrong, I still think that it would be disastrous for ordinary folks in this country to come out of the EU without a deal.

What has been born privileged got to do with being clever?

[flourbasher]

It's my understanding that if a deal scenario is agreed the inticate details of a deal will only be made during the transition period and not before.
So if we commence down the path that the 'dealers' so badly crave we might ultimately end up with a really bad one. The devil is in the detail as they say.
So the cynic would say that the EU will ensure that it's going to be a Bad deal for us but the EU will ensure it's a good one for them and topped off with a horrendous one surrounding the NI scenario.
Once we've gone down a deal route there's probably no turning back and we,re at the mercy of the EU.......again.

[rolymiller]

What has been born privileged got to do with being clever?

In Boris and Cameron's case nothing evidently!

[WanChaiMiller]

This is Sarah Champions response after yesterdays vote. I am simply posting it as a matter of interest.

"I want my position on Brexit to be very clear.

I accept, respect and I’m doing all I can to honour the result of the referendum and leave the European Union. My voting record shows this.

My first priority is to get the best deal possible. On leaving Europe we should aim to protect our industries, worker and environmental rights and maintain our security agreements.

However, if this is not possible, I strongly believe that we must leave the European Union even if that means leaving without a deal in place.

Last night there was a debate to extend leaving the EU to the 31st January 2020. I believe the best way to prevent both ‘No Deal’ and to stop the revocation of Article 50 is to come up with a deal that MPs can agree on. To that end, I used the debate to table an amendment with a cross-party group of MPs to force the Government to publish the ‘Withdrawal Agreement Bill’, the deal negotiated between Theresa May and the Labour Front Bench. This Bill never saw the light of day as the Conservatives sacked May, but it offers security on workers’ rights, environmental standards and good protection for jobs in this country. The Bill represents a cross-party consensus, its publication could break the deadlock and lead to a positive Brexit for Rotherham.

I would not have voted for the Bill last night if the cross-party amendment to get a deal had not been successful.

Let me be clear: Boris Johnson does not have the confidence of the House. He doesn’t have an alternative deal or a plan, he just wants to hold on to power at all costs. I think it is worth one last attempt to secure a deal that protects the UK, if that is not possible by the 31st January, I will vote to leave the EU regardless. The wishes of the majority in Rotherham are clear and I will do everything that I can to deliver upon them."

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Opinions change with time and how it’s reported changes

Take Nelson Mandela for example, one day a terrorist later to become a national hero

[great_fire]

I think this upcoming election is going to be the best chance to finally get rid of these disgusting amoral Labour lot who trade children for votes.

Bring it on.

[flourbasher]

Opinions change with time and how it’s reported changes

Take Nelson Mandela for example, one day a terrorist later to become a national hero

Steve Smith was a cheating cry baby convict.
Unless you frequent the western terrace he's now simply referred to as the worlds best batsman

[Redshank]

Whichever way Brexit pans out, No Deal or Remain, the arguments will persist. The lid is well and truly off the can of worms but, I hate to say it as I voted leave, the only way to make some progress is probably via another referendum.

A fair way to let remainers make their point whilst also acknowledging the result of the first referendum would be to hold another one slightly loaded in Brexit favour. How about; "Negotiated Deal" on one hand, and "Stay In" on the other. "Stay In" would need at least a 2/3 majority to overturn the original referendum result, anything less and "Negotiated Deal" wins.

There's ultimately no way forward that would shut everybody up but any subsequent referendum HAS to be loaded slightly in favour of some form of Brexit otherwise it makes a mockery of the word democracy.