O/T Democracy

[animallittle3]

I'd like to know who from within the Labour Party is speaking up for us in the brexit northern heartlands ? .

There are leavers in the Labour Party but where are they ?, for the first time in his political life even Skinner can't find his voice .

Please tell me they don't think when push comes to shove we will back them like we've always done .

[flourbasher]

Why wouldn't the EU not want this saga to go on & on
Every month we will be paying in approx £1 billion

The govt should Send an invoice to all those people who have derailed the democratic process. If they don't pay then increase their income tax until the wasted sums are paid.back. Once retired it comes out of their pensions.

Corbyn has to pay double because he's so incompetent

[BigLadonOS]

I'd like to know who from within the Labour Party is speaking up for us in the brexit northern heartlands ? .

There are leavers in the Labour Party but where are they ?, for the first time in his political life even Skinner can't find his voice .

Please tell me they don't think when push comes to shove we will back them like we've always done .

Of course they think the North will back them because they think that all us northerners are as thick as **** and to be honest he may well be right.

[ragingpup]

This started three years ago. I'm saying if parliament had got behind brexit we would have got a deal. Mark carney head of the bank of England down graded the effect of a no deal. He saying he got it wrong,project fear maybe..

I don't think any deal would come close to what you and the eurosceptics in the tory and brexit party would accept. In short, they want reciprocal trade tariffs and after that no interference, which of course would allow us to completely undercut the EU on the world trade market. Yet when the EU bargain, as America will do, and any country does on trade deals, there is an inevitable compromise on many aspects. Farage et Al want it all. The EU are never going to give that. The WA is, despite my dislike of it, is as good as we could have expected from the WA and then were only at the start of the real negotiations.

So let's not talk of deals on here if you have no serious intention of wanting one. It's quite obvious what you want!

Carney adjusted his worst case prediction to take into account work that had been done in preparation. Only a 5% reduction in our national growth with no deal! Well done on those preps peeps!

[ragingpup]

Once again just for you so you might understand it once and for all. Camaron said that the negotiation that he was doing at the time was the negotiation we were to vote on (IE we will negotiate before we set anything in motion) Once that negotiation was over we had the referendum do you ****ing understand that or do you just want to continue with your bull**** because you are incapable of understanding what was said and what actually happend?

Oh dear. Big lad. Calm down.

So let me get this straight: are you saying that Cameron's attempt to renegotiate terms with the eu in 2015 counts as the deal, and that the 2016 referendum was an in out vote based on the terms of the deal that Cameron failed to renegotiate (ie the one we had all along)? Is that really what you're saying?

[ragingpup]

I'd like to know who from within the Labour Party is speaking up for us in the brexit northern heartlands ? .

There are leavers in the Labour Party but where are they ?, for the first time in his political life even Skinner can't find his voice .

Please tell me they don't think when push comes to shove we will back them like we've always done .

Sad truth is that Labour have always been 'moderates' on Brexit. Genuinely (most anyway) wanting to leave but with a suitable deal which (in their minds) wouldn't cause substantial financial harm. And to the extremes you have the lib Dems and the erg/BP. On top of that they have to reflect the fact that the vast majority of labour members voted remain, recognising also that the deal finally achieved should in fairness also reflect the majority of people in the middle ground, the non extremes on Brexit. Obviously this comes at a big cost because the extremes on both sides are pulling their parties to pieces, the BP and lib Dems being the beneficiaries.

No one really wins in this. Its a godawful **** up as the extremes are too numerous across the parties and no consensus or compromise can be achieved by anyone. The outcome, as it stands, looks like another minority government. But as a brexit agnostic, I hope that this is labour led, with loads in common with the greens and Plaid, we can start to start to make inroads into reversing some of the dreadful policies inflicted on our communities in the last 10 years. But I would agree that we will most likely fight the election with Corbyn now a net liability

[Stovicmiller]

I don't think any deal would come close to what you and the eurosceptics in the tory and brexit party would accept. In short, they want reciprocal trade tariffs and after that no interference, which of course would allow us to completely undercut the EU on the world trade market. Yet when the EU bargain, as America will do, and any country does on trade deals, there is an inevitable compromise on many aspects. Farage et Al want it all. The EU are never going to give that. The WA is, despite my dislike of it, is as good as we could have expected from the WA and then were only at the start of the real negotiations.

So let's not talk of deals on here if you have no serious intention of wanting one. It's quite obvious what you want!

Carney adjusted his worst case prediction to take into account work that had been done in preparation. Only a 5% reduction in our national growth with no deal! Well done on those preps peeps!

you keep believing project fear peeps

[animallittle3]

Sad truth is that Labour have always been 'moderates' on Brexit. Genuinely (most anyway) wanting to leave but with a suitable deal which (in their minds) wouldn't cause substantial financial harm. And to the extremes you have the lib Dems and the erg/BP. On top of that they have to reflect the fact that the vast majority of labour members voted remain, recognising also that the deal finally achieved should in fairness also reflect the majority of people in the middle ground, the non extremes on Brexit. Obviously this comes at a big cost because the extremes on both sides are pulling their parties to pieces, the BP and lib Dems being the beneficiaries.

No one really wins in this. Its a godawful **** up as the extremes are too numerous across the parties and no consensus or compromise can be achieved by anyone. The outcome, as it stands, looks like another minority government. But as a brexit agnostic, I hope that this is labour led, with loads in common with the greens and Plaid, we can start to start to make inroads into reversing some of the dreadful policies inflicted on our communities in the last 10 years. But I would agree that we will most likely fight the election with Corbyn now a net liability

Estimated to be 5m people who voted leave in the referendum and for Corbyn in the last election .

That's just under a third of the total leave vote and yet not one person from the Labour Party speaks for us .

The Labour Party manifesto in 2017 promised to honour the referendum result .

How would you feel about that Raging if you were one of the 5m ? .

Tell you now if Farage stands in Barnsley Central against Dan Jarvis he will wallop him at the forthcoming election and he'd wallop Champion in Rotherham too .

[great_fire]

There's Kate Hoey, and there was John Mann, but he's just left.

Disappointed in Skinner, has he had a late damascene conversion to the EU cause like Corbyn?

[ragingpup]

Estimated to be 5m people who voted leave in the referendum and for Corbyn in the last election .

That's just under a third of the total leave vote and yet not one person from the Labour Party speaks for us .

The Labour Party manifesto in 2017 promised to honour the referendum result .

How would you feel about that Raging if you were one of the 5m ? .

Tell you now if Farage stands in Barnsley Central against Dan Jarvis he will wallop him at the forthcoming election and he'd wallop Champion in Rotherham too .

If Labour spoke for you and others with similar view on here, what would you want them to say?

Accept the WA?
Argue to remove the backstop and if successful accept the WA? Would you want Corbyn to follow that line?
Leave without a deal regardless of the risk and despite it being against the wishes of the 48% and? %of the 52%,and against 70% of Labour members?

It may indeed cost us labour heartlands support no not blame the EU and immigrants for our domestic problems and mak. But I'm glad we're not pursuing populist solutions as they aren't going to achieve the fairer society we want. Just points fingers away from where the real problems away, and in this case leaves us wide open for disaster capitalism once again to move in, slash taxes (response to economic hit) and asset stripping from (mainly non UK) businesses and oligarchs.

We keep dancing to their tunes dont we?