O/T Democracy

[Exiletyke]

After 40 years, mostly under the Conservatives, we can look around us and see how effective England has been at establishing standards and protections despite those that are minimum from the EU. Do you think they would like to strip further away at that bone? I think that they would. Sorry, but we know that they would!

I agree that the government look a mess, but we both know that the election machine will kick in and that there is still every chance that the Tories will do as they intend under their new management, take us out without a deal, and then they can really get to work on us punters!

But I asked you what specific EU laws and regs are out there that you feel are the key ones that hold us back. “shackle us to the EU” as many say? I hear you that they are a neo-liberal organisation and favour the big corps, and that you can’t vote the EU as an entity out. I get that. But what specifically are they forcing on us? There must be some serious restrictions that they are placing on us to feel as strongly as you do.

It's not what the EU is forcing on us but rather [as a so called platform for good] what they are not forcing on us
No help in the coal industry with a dictator like Thatcher riding roughshod over the coal industry [but worse still not putting any plan in place to replace all the direct & indirect jobs affected]
No help for the Steel industry
Just why be a member of such an organisation? [paper tiger]
& as for employment legislation mentioned in your article have you ever experienced the appalling malpractices of the Agency industry
It's ok citing all these so called advantages but who enforces the laws with any serious conviction?
Don't bother looking , I'll tell you ........nobody

[CASPER-64-FRANK]

I'd like to know who from within the Labour Party is speaking up for us in the brexit northern heartlands ? .

There are leavers in the Labour Party but where are they ?, for the first time in his political life even Skinner can't find his voice .

Please tell me they don't think when push comes to shove we will back them like we've always done .

What would you like Dennis Skinner to say that he hasn’t said in the past ?
He’s pro Brexit and would have left the EU a long time ago.
It’s not his fault the Labour Party refuses to listen to him.
At the last Party Conference they put it in the Constitution to honour the referendum BUT not to accept No deal.
They’re going backwards and keep moving the goalposts.

Worst Tory Government for a long long while and no credible opposition.

[animallittle3]

I’m with you on the tightening up on immigration and allowing for skills shortages for jobs that can’t be filled in the UK.

On that theme, how would you deal with the low skills seasonal workforce and masses of health and care people who effectively prop up the NHS? Or, to put the question another way, what sort of jobs that are currently heavily populated by migrant workers that you would like to change and have them populated by UK workers?

I think we’d both like to improve the pay and conditions of all these jobs to make them more attractive to UK workers who otherwise are not applying for them, but can you see our politicians making this level of investment? Both in upping skills as well as making some very undesirable ‘slog’ work ‘worth it’. In the absence of Kerr, let me devil’s advocate: who would pay for this? Can, for example, seasonal workers in agriculture, already working on very thin profit margins due to our lovely approach to free market capitalism, afford the wage increases that you are counting on?

In effect, I think what you are looking for here is a huge restructuring of economic priorities, that would be ambitious but very expensive, and require a completely different attitude to training and paying a native UK workforce minimum wages that are very much hiked from the current level. I’d applaud that, and be willing to finance it through my taxes. But would the electorate be willing to fund it? Ironically, I would imagine that many of the people citing the ‘migrant wage reduction’ argument have not thought through the radical change needed to overhaul the current system, and when push comes to shove will be the first ones shouting, and voting, us down as the usual big spending, financially illiterate reds!

Lastly: have you read the Migration Advisory Committee report on the impact (+ and -) of migration discussed in summary here: https://www.ft.com/content/797f7b42-...2-17176fbf93f5 It does indeed find a squeeze at lower paid levels, as you’ve argued, but the impact as actually quite minor (5%) in keeping wages low in that worker group. Not sure if you’ve read the full report and what your thoughts are as it does contradict your main argument to some extent.

The only reason we probably feel that such change in economic outlook looks like fantasy is because we have become far too accustomed to trickle down policies over the last 40 years which clearly haven't worked .

I'm pretty convinced by the debate that investing in people drives the economy upwards , give folk a few quid and they spend it , spending creates tax revenues for the government and spending has a positive impact everywhere in the chain .

The distribution of wealth must change Raging or the situation this country finds itself in right now will just get even worse .

I don't speak for myself because my views on the EU are well documented but I have to say a fair percentage of the electorate voted leave because of austerity and didn't have a voice .

I can't access your link Raging unless i sign up to the FT website but just out of curiosity does the figures factor in the extra burden on the NHS , school places and increases in rent on properties across the UK , more demand then the price goes up obviously especially with an open door EU migration policy .

If people from abroad want to work and live here then fine but apply for a work permit and we will be in touch with a decision .

[great_fire]

You might find this interesting Biglad , our entry by Heath in to the common market was illegal and therefore we never actually joined .


https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2014...-eu-illegally/

Major broke the law as well when he signed the Maastricht Treaty, for the same reason.

Yet Remainers will surely kick up a massive fuss if Boris does.

[animallittle3]

Well Johnson looks well and truly stuffed now , I make that 6 consecutive defeats out of 6 , no majority what so ever , 21 tories sacked and no deal unlawful which is the patform he's gone for broke on .

It's got to the point where he dare not turn up at Parliament anymore because he's out of ammunition and Corbyn's just taken hold of a brand new AK - 47 fully loaded .

Maybe the inmates at Armley Prison maybe more welcoming of him than within the house .

He could of course assume martyr status as the judge sends him down after he defies the law , a sort of modern day Thomas Moore if you know your history .

I've gone past anger to tell the truth , a bit like you do when you are having a terrible season and know no matter what you do your going to go down the week after easter at the latest .

Parliament is now in total control of this process which equates to remainers having the code to the safe .

Brexit won't happen in my opinion , Brexiteers are now the bad guys and Parliament the saviours of democracy and upholding the law .

Oh the irony ......... life goes on none the less .

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

If there’s any joy to be taken out of this pathetic fiasco the recent events have brought the worms out of the woodwork.

MPs that you thought were representing their voters but all along have been frustrating brexit on the sly.

Traitors all


By the way it’s Thomas More

[animallittle3]

If there’s any joy to be taken out of this pathetic fiasco the recent events have brought the worms out of the woodwork.

MPs that you thought were representing their voters but all along have been frustrating brexit on the sly.

Traitors all


By the way it’s Thomas More

It is indeed Grist .

[great_fire]

Corbyn now sounds like every other Remainer, what a shame, working class votes lost.

[BigLadonOS]

Well Johnson looks well and truly stuffed now , I make that 6 consecutive defeats out of 6 , no majority what so ever , 21 tories sacked and no deal unlawful which is the patform he's gone for broke on .

It's got to the point where he dare not turn up at Parliament anymore because he's out of ammunition and Corbyn's just taken hold of a brand new AK - 47 fully loaded .

Maybe the inmates at Armley Prison maybe more welcoming of him than within the house .

He could of course assume martyr status as the judge sends him down after he defies the law , a sort of modern day Thomas Moore if you know your history .

I've gone past anger to tell the truth , a bit like you do when you are having a terrible season and know no matter what you do your going to go down the week after easter at the latest .

Parliament is now in total control of this process which equates to remainers having the code to the safe .

Brexit won't happen in my opinion , Brexiteers are now the bad guys and Parliament the saviours of democracy and upholding the law .

Oh the irony ......... life goes on none the less .

No deal is not unlawful animal because those clever labour and other scumbags have failed to put in the bill that the existing depart date of oct 31 has to be amended! Oh dear how silly of them. ****ers.

[BigLadonOS]

Corbyn now sounds like every other Remainer, what a shame, working class votes lost.

Corbyn has lost the plot and thinks he still has the backing of the Labour faithful.