O/T Democracy

[WanChaiMiller]

Wonder what Cameron thinks about his master plan to unite the Tory Party?

[Exiletyke]

Wonder what Cameron thinks about his master plan to unite the Tory Party?

He reckons not his fault

[Godsend.F.C.]

When Johnson became PM I expected a more robust approach to us finally leaving the EU but as Michael Caine once said " you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off " .

As far as I'm concerned Johnson ticked the same box as I did in the referendum and that's all we have in common and all we will ever have .

You seem to be a supporter of Johnson's tactics Biglad , the end justifies the means perhaps but I'll tell you straight this people v parliament game dreamed up by a jumped up little t@sser who isn't even an elected MP is a very dangerous game to play .

Johnson's tactics in my opinion have only succeeded in winding up the remainers and aligning to a certain extent the opposition party's , with no majority in parliament it seems a ludicrous tactic to employ .

The referendum result put leave on the right side of democracy all day long and because of this idiot and his jumped up little toe rag advisor we are the bad guys now , even the Supreme Court have outed him as a liar .

Since he became PM just exactly how many times have you seen him in Brussels on the news bulletins meeting with the EU ?

Hardly any , if he has at all .

There's a right way you can crash out with no deal and there's this way and its not good , it's not good for future trade deals and neither will it heal the divides in the country , we all have to carry on if this thing ever gets resolved .

Whipping up the people in to frenzy with this kind of political dialogue is unacceptable , it only takes one nut jack as we've seen when Jo Cox was murdered .

If you believe Johnson and the ERG share your vision of the UK out of the EU then fair enough but it ain't mine , the sooner this lot are expelled from the tory party the better we can all sleep , that's saying something from me I can tell you endorsing tory moderates ......gulp !!

There's also one thing that seems to have escaped Johnson and his henchmen , whipping up the people v parliament goes the other way too and if Johnson does win the next GE with a majority on the back of this , then he and his henchman and whatever they have in store post brexit might live to regret how they showed the UK electorate how to do it .

You can bet that odious little shyte Cummings won't be around if that time comes .

Don’t worry animallittle3, Cummings has recently said “ it will be a walk in the park leaving the EU “

Yes we'll put Mr animal. come out by all means but let's do it properly. Brexit that has a erg flavour will leave us all with a nasty taste in the mouth.

Not all, near enough 28% of the electorate didn’t bother to vote Remain or Leave.
Apathy or couldn’t care less whether we are out or in ?

[Exiletyke]

Don’t worry animallittle3, Cummings has recently said “ it will be a walk in the park leaving the EU “



Not all, near enough 28% of the electorate didn’t bother to vote Remain or Leave.
Apathy or couldn’t care less whether we are out or in ?

Or put another way 72% bothered to vote
33.5 million out of 46 million
Hardly apathetic

[KerrAvon]

Yes we'll put Mr animal. come out by all means but let's do it properly. Brexit that has a erg flavour will leave us all with a nasty taste in the mouth.

Good morning, Roly. I hope you slept well and are looking forward to your day.

What do you mean by ERG flavour and why do you think it would leave a nasty taste?

[ragingpup]

Johnson is a one nation Tory who has very little in common with the likes of Rees-Mogg other than a wish to leave the EU. I'm not sure the Left playing the 'neo-liberal' bogeyman card is helpful.

Johnson did not create the division that is apparent within the country. Ultimately whether the UK is in the EU or not is a binary choice. That polarised the country and Parliament has exacerbated that by failing to deliver on the direction indicated by the referendum.

In the face of an intransigent Parliament it is difficult to see what else Johnson can do other than seek an election and play it as 'back me if you want to leave'. The Lib-Dems will similarly 'play it as back us if you want to remain'. It's the politics of the last three years that have delivered us to where we are not the last three months.

Sadly, being in the public eye carries a degree of risk and that is probably particularly the case for MPs as political beliefs can be both extreme and deeply held. I don't think calling the Benn Act a surrender bill is going to have much of an effect on the degree of risk.

I feel slightly uneasy to see the Jo Cox card being played by some people. It is almost as though speaking her name is seen as some sort of talisman placing the point made by the speaker above criticism or challenge.

Agree about the terminology of surrender bill. And partly agree with some of the hysterics over Jo Cox, although you have to bear in mind the genuine threat to MPs when emotions are being whipped up as they were on Wednesday. We shouldn't forget what can happen when this happens, and that MPs are literally in the firing line.

But Boris not create the division that we are facing? Come on! Who was it in front of the bus? Who commissioned the Vote Leave campaign? Who spent two years writing columns encouraging MPs to vote down his own PM's negotiated deal? Johnson and Gove are the architects of this situation.

[KerrAvon]

Agree about the terminology of surrender bill. And partly agree with some of the hysterics over Jo Cox, although you have to bear in mind the genuine threat to MPs when emotions are being whipped up as they were on Wednesday. We shouldn't forget what can happen when this happens, and that MPs are literally in the firing line.

But Boris not create the division that we are facing? Come on! Who was it in front of the bus? Who commissioned the Vote Leave campaign? Who spent two years writing columns encouraging MPs to vote down his own PM's negotiated deal? Johnson and Gove are the architects of this situation.

Ragy-poos, I hope that you are set up for a good day too.

If taking part in a Leave campaign created division then surely those MPs who took part in the Remain campaign did too?

And if arguing against the May deal created division created division then surely that puts Labour equally into the frame doesn't it? And what of your part? Didn't you argue against the May deal on here and tell us that you were in contact with your MP to urge him to vote against it?

Picking two people from the Leave side and heaping all the blame on them seems illogical and demonstrative of bias, but I am, as always, willing to hear your rationale for doing so.

[Godsend.F.C.]

Or put another way 72% bothered to vote
33.5 million out of 46 million
Hardly apathetic

Then the 28% that didn’t vote couldn’t care less whether we’re in or out and won’t have a nasty taste and if they have it’s their own fault.

[ragingpup]

Ragy-poos, I hope that you are set up for a good day too.

If taking part in a Leave campaign created division then surely those MPs who took part in the Remain campaign did too?

And if arguing against the May deal created division created division then surely that puts Labour equally into the frame doesn't it? And what of your part? Didn't you argue against the May deal on here and tell us that you were in contact with your MP to urge him to vote against it?

Picking two people from the Leave side and heaping all the blame on them seems illogical and demonstrative of bias, but I am, as always, willing to hear your rationale for doing so.

Did the people who took part in the remain campaign agitate for 25 years to force a referendum?

[BigLadonOS]

Mate, seriously, surely not at all costs. The likes of Johnson and ERG has designs on Britain that is at total odds with what I read as the reason why many Labour voting Northern Working Class people want to leave.

Brexit has paralysed Britain politically and brought us to a cross roads and a tipping point. Brexit as an ideology sits in a cross party, cross society void. The traditional parties are broken.The lack of any unifying political group in Parliament to drive Brexit through has allowed the global neoliberal wing of the Tory party to seized power. Animal has it spot on.

The point is that unless it is at all costs then we will never leave because those other remoaner lot will not let us.

I wanted a deal as stated above but it had to be the right deal not treason mays one. The other 2 main parties just want to stop it so it either a clean break or none at all.