O/T Democracy

[BigLadonOS]

Did the people who took part in the remain campaign agitate for 25 years to force a referendum?

No they agitated against it for 25 years.

[animallittle3]

I just want out Animal and I think 3 years is long enough dont you?

Boris has been pushed in to this style because the remoaners are using every dirty trick they can to stop Brexit and in my opinion they are indeed trecharas and undemocratic in the worst possible way.

If you think Boris is a liar then what are the other lot who promised to uphold the referendum result? Someone needed to stand up to them and it looks like Boris is doing a good job so far.

Lets just get out ASAP and go from there.

I can tell you through personal experience in the mid 80's what it's like to be on the WRONG side of RIGHT Biglad , the RIGHT side of WRONG in politics trumps it all day long .

The RIGHT side of RIGHT is where we need to be .

The MP's who have sought to overturn the referendum result will have to face the electorate not many weeks from now and that is where their fate will be decided , that remains the only way you deal with such people and always will .

Shutting them out and losing in the Supreme Court just gives them the credibility they don't deserve .

Scenes like we saw the other day in parliament just hands them the moral high ground .

Johnson needs to present a deal to parliament they can debate and vote upon , you can't have it any other way in my opinion .

I do take your point that the hard line remainers have led to hard line leave but you also have to acknowledge that Johnson and his henchman also had an opportunity to have left the EU already and voted it down .

They've stalled this too let's not forget .

I take the point any deal is likely to be a poor one but it gets us OUT and that's where we go , renegotiation and payments to the EU subject to progress that finally lets us escape this thing .

Yes it will take years but we've come this far already but in my mind OUT is OUT .

Another referendum and that's that and that is where Johnson's tactics are taking us in my opinion .

[animallittle3]

You see Biglad this is what his tactics have led to .

You get Sturgeon and Swinson behind Corbyn and you know where this one is heading , two massively pro EU party leaders and the Labour leader who isn't exactly known for decisiveness on this matter and we are down the route of another referendum .


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...dence-vote-snp

[BigLadonOS]

I can tell you through personal experience in the mid 80's what it's like to be on the WRONG side of RIGHT Biglad , the RIGHT side of WRONG in politics trumps it all day long .

The RIGHT side of RIGHT is where we need to be .

The MP's who have sought to overturn the referendum result will have to face the electorate not many weeks from now and that is where their fate will be decided , that remains the only way you deal with such people and always will .

Shutting them out and losing in the Supreme Court just gives them the credibility they don't deserve .

Scenes like we saw the other day in parliament just hands them the moral high ground .

Johnson needs to present a deal to parliament they can debate and vote upon , you can't have it any other way in my opinion .

I do take your point that the hard line remainers have led to hard line leave but you also have to acknowledge that Johnson and his henchman also had an opportunity to have left the EU already and voted it down .

They've stalled this too let's not forget .

I take the point any deal is likely to be a poor one but it gets us OUT and that's where we go , renegotiation and payments to the EU subject to progress that finally lets us escape this thing .

Yes it will take years but we've come this far already but in my mind OUT is OUT .

Another referendum and that's that and that is where Johnson's tactics are taking us in my opinion .

Sorry Animal but I strongly disagree with you on this one. Under normal circumstances I agree with much of what you have said but these are not normal circumstances and normal political strategy is not in play here.

Traitors to the people in my opinion are not nearly strong enough words to be thrown at this bunch of I know better wanckers.

The deal you say they turned down was not even close to being leave so why would they have voted for it?

The only way out of this now is a clean break and then a GE because once we are out the people will do what is necessary to be done.

[rolymiller]

Sorry Animal but I strongly disagree with you on this one. Under normal circumstances I agree with much of what you have said but these are not normal circumstances and normal political strategy is not in play here.

Traitors to the people in my opinion are not nearly strong enough words to be thrown at this bunch of I know better wanckers.

The deal you say they turned down was not even close to being leave so why would they have voted for it?

The only way out of this now is a clean break and then a GE because once we are out the people will do what is necessary to be done.

You must rephrase your statement Big lad.

TRAITORS to just over half the people who voted leave BUT not traitors to the nearly half of the population who vored remain and not to those who didn't vote at all- me being one.

So basically to a minority of the British electorate.

Basically about 28% didnt vote at all- the sensible ones who could see the shyte we have had coming plus

So lets be generous to you big lad and say 40% of the voting population wanted to come out that would leave 60% of the population who either wanted remain or neither.

A resounding loss I am afraid for leavers. Leavers are in the minority. You have no right to shout the odds.

Conclusion the population of this country has NOT been betrayed because the majority did NOT want to leave. its simple maths and a simple fact.

[BigLadonOS]

You must rephrase your statement Big lad.

TRAITORS to just over half the people who voted leave BUT not traitors to the nearly half of the population who vored remain and not to those who didn't vote at all- me being one.

So basically to a minority of the British electorate.

Basically about 28% didnt vote at all- the sensible ones who could see the shyte we have had coming plus

So lets be generous to you big lad and say 40% of the voting population wanted to come out that would leave 60% of the population who either wanted remain or neither.

A resounding loss I am afraid for leavers. Leavers are in the minority. You have no right to shout the odds.

Conclusion the population of this country has NOT been betrayed because the majority did NOT want to leave. its simple maths and a simple fact.

Do not be so pedantic mate. For your maths to work you are saying that the people who did not vote did not want to leave at all and that my friend is wishful thinking. I would put it to you that 100% of the none voters did not care one way or the other so in reality me owd mate leave still won.

Just a quick note for you to consider "Must Try Harder"

[BigLadonOS]

You see Biglad this is what his tactics have led to .

You get Sturgeon and Swinson behind Corbyn and you know where this one is heading , two massively pro EU party leaders and the Labour leader who isn't exactly known for decisiveness on this matter and we are down the route of another referendum .


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...dence-vote-snp

Bring it on mate bring it on. Although I would be very surprised if it were to happen because it would be political suicide.

[rolymiller]

Suck on this then big lad.


https://whatukthinks.org/eu/question...ould-you-vote/


You are in denial (as ever).


Even now more voters are for remain than leave and this has been a consistent pattern since last Feb. In fact you could argue over the last couple of years there have been more remainers than leavers. Also the non voter is staying the same. It is not a one off survey and there are a variety of pollsters in that survey before you argue you can't believe polls. (Which in any case is a weak argument because reality could be even worse for leavers).


These figures would also indicate that an election may not pan out as some folks think. If 28% of voters do not think Brexit is an issue as could be indicated this may mean they will vote on other issues or not vote at all in the election.

Leavers are very complacent that they are gonna walk away with the argument at an election and that anyone backing a leave campaign are gonna do well. This does not suggest that at all.

The risk for any party putting all their eggs in one basket ie Brexit could be in for a nasty shock and could very well be decimated. And now for me this sort of makes sense why Corbyn has sat on the fence on Brexit so far. If he can catch the votes of the 28% people who dont give a toss about Brexit using arguments on other issues he could do quite well.

My advice to any party in a GE is to not concentrate on Brexit. Concentrate on other issues...there are plenty.


Interesting times owd lad and certainly no walk in the park for the leavers.

[rolymiller]

Kerr mi owd mucker. I am referring to a Boris/ Trump trade pact that would worry me deeply.

[animallittle3]

Bring it on mate bring it on. Although I would be very surprised if it were to happen because it would be political suicide.

Except that those who control parliament with a majority historically tend to do better than those with no majority and are then booted out .

Just looking at this pragmatically Biglad .

As roly has pointed out the leave vote isn't strong enough to guarantee an election victory with a majority , not by a long way .

A coalition government of Labour , SNP and Lib Dems will bury leaving the EU , never mind what Swinson says about Corbyn today someone who will revoke article 50 without so much as a referendum is capable of anything to keep us in the EU if she wakes up and realises she can't do it alone .

We are done for Biglad in my opinion .