BOJO. The end.

[army88]

Army, no where have I suggested that the large percentage of leavers are racist. I thought I had made that clear. If not then I am saying it now.
I was asking why the racist groups in Britain (BNP, Britain First, EDL, National front etc) all supported Brexit. I was not implying that you, or anyone else on here, were supporters of any of these groups.
I think it is a fair question to ask?

And yes, talking about immigration control is not racist - it is a very responsible thing to discuss.

59 I’ve posted this before and it still stands it’s of complete irrelevance why people voted to leave , far left or right , racist , facist,

They had a democratic vote and used it , also as I said many people don’t like our immigration policy as it has been for many years ( that doesn’t make them or me racist ).
I understand what your getting at but feel as you rightly go back to at many given times democracy should be the winner, however now you are implying that there are more racist people in the majority democratic leave vote which is the bit where I I said here comes the race card.
I myself am not racist in any way shape or form and understand we need controlled immigration to thrive as a country as we don’t have the skill set in house here to manage the economy.

So from my perspective and I asked you this is why are people being pigeon holed as racist when they were asked to vote remain or leave, you know as well as me that there will always be a section of people who are but you can’t deflect the leavers as a larger percentage of racists imo anyway.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Yesterday, I witnessed a bejewelled old lady dressed up to the nines, reading a Tory election manifesto in a plummy fake accent, within a staged pantomime that must have cost us taxpayers millions of pounds.
We really are a set of servile, braindead morons if we allow this ridiculous charade to continue...

Attachment 14126

[sinkov]

Perhaps Lady Hale, replete with Spider broach, should have trundled up smirking, to tell us what our government can and cannot do ?

Feck off, I much prefer Brenda, God bless her.

[1959_60]

I'm going to have to take a chill pill 1959_60. I have no faith whatsoever in any of our MP's, their self interest is appalling, they do not respect democracy and the Lib Dems are the worst of the worse.
You cite "Little Englanders" pursuing a racist agenda and then claim we need to address the issue of immigration. Cake and eat it to my mind has always been the forte of the Lib Dems and you quote straight from their playbook.
Don't take my criticism personally, I dislike intensely all Lib Dems.

No problem BT! We are both used to taking stick when we engage with people - especially in the last few years.

Regarding immigration, every party has it's own policy. As a remain party, the Lib Dems want free movement within the EU to continue. But we have specific policies for immigration from the rest of the world. Just like the other parties.
In fact I believe the Lib Dems and Labour are very close on immigration policies?

[1959_60]

59 I’ve posted this before and it still stands it’s of complete irrelevance why people voted to leave , far left or right , racist , facist,

They had a democratic vote and used it , also as I said many people don’t like our immigration policy as it has been for many years ( that doesn’t make them or me racist ).
I understand what your getting at but feel as you rightly go back to at many given times democracy should be the winner, however now you are implying that there are more racist people in the majority democratic leave vote which is the bit where I I said here comes the race card.
I myself am not racist in any way shape or form and understand we need controlled immigration to thrive as a country as we don’t have the skill set in house here to manage the economy.

So from my perspective and I asked you this is why are people being pigeon holed as racist when they were asked to vote remain or leave, you know as well as me that there will always be a section of people who are but you can’t deflect the leavers as a larger percentage of racists imo anyway.

I agree with a lot of that Army.

And if you will accept that in no way was I implying that anyone on here is racist then I'm happy.

I could have brought up the fact that the under 50's largely voted remain and a lot of other interesting voter profiles but I think I will let it lie

[sinkov]

I agree with a lot of that Army.

And if you will accept that in no way was I implying that anyone on here is racist then I'm happy.

I could have brought up the fact that the under 50's largely voted remain and a lot of other interesting voter profiles but I think I will let it lie

You could have brought up the fact that one third of LibDem voters voted to leave, but you let that one lie. Is it just that one third of LibDems are aging racists, or is there another reason for them voting to leave ? Why would you rather discuss the motives of BNP supporters (the few hundred of them) rather than your own ?

[Vintage Claret]

I agree with a lot of that Army.

And if you will accept that in no way was I implying that anyone on here is racist then I'm happy.

I could have brought up the fact that the under 50's largely voted remain and a lot of other interesting voter profiles but I think I will let it lie

59 I think your last paragraph is a really relevant issue.

When it was first muted in the late 1960's of joining the then common market I was totally against joining, however when the referendum was announce three years ago before deciding which way to vote I discussed this with my grandchildren who at the time were all in their twenties. They all thought that the UK should remain part of the EU. As being in my mid 70's I took the view that my life span in relation to theirs was quite small and as we were voting on the future of the UK and indeed part of their future I decided to join them in voting remain.

While I have to agree that the majority voted to leave the EU and that is what we should do, I think the government should be considering what is the best for our future generations not what is best for their political backers.

[sinkov]

59 I think your last paragraph is a really relevant issue.

When it was first muted in the late 1960's of joining the then common market I was totally against joining, however when the referendum was announce three years ago before deciding which way to vote I discussed this with my grandchildren who at the time were all in their twenties. They all thought that the UK should remain part of the EU. As being in my mid 70's I took the view that my life span in relation to theirs was quite small and as we were voting on the future of the UK and indeed part of their future I decided to join them in voting remain.

While I have to agree that the majority voted to leave the EU and that is what we should do, I think the government should be considering what is the best for our future generations not what is best for their political backers.

That's a very fair point VC, the same one 59 has often made. But could I enquire, did you agree with the reasons your grandchildren gave for why they wanted to remain in the EU ? I'm sure they had valid reasons, and if you agreed with them then of course you would vote to remain, but did you vote to remain against your better judgement, if you really thought we would be better off out in the long term, should you not have voted to leave in order to save the younger generations from themselves, so to speak ?

It is my honestly held view that the EU will go the same way as the USSR and Yugoslavia, it will not survive, it's swimming against the tide of history, and it is better that we leave now than be part of it's catastrophic collapse in the future. This won't affect me, I'll probably be long gone, but it will affect my children, grandchildren and their families, so my decision to vote to leave is not a selfish one, it was taken for the same reasons as yours, to protect future generations.

[Vintage Claret]

That's a very fair point VC, the same one 59 has often made. But could I enquire, did you agree with the reasons your grandchildren gave for why they wanted to remain in the EU ? I'm sure they had valid reasons, and if you agreed with them then of course you would vote to remain, but did you vote to remain against your better judgement, if you really thought we would be better off out in the long term, should you not have voted to leave in order to save the younger generations from themselves, so to speak ?

It is my honestly held view that the EU will go the same way as the USSR and Yugoslavia, it will not survive, it's swimming against the tide of history, and it is better that we leave now than be part of it's catastrophic collapse in the future. This won't affect me, I'll probably be long gone, but it will affect my children, grandchildren and their families, so my decision to vote to leave is not a selfish one, it was taken for the same reasons as yours, to protect future generations.

Sinkov, I personally did not feel we were given enough information to be able to make an informed decision on leaving the EU. My problem with the leave campaign was that there was no plan of what would happen after leaving the EU just what appeared to be patriotic rhetoric.

As we have seen in recent weeks any agreement with the EU on leaving does not appear to be favourable to the UK. I also feel that having a different customs deal for Northern Ireland should be a non starter, the deal should be for the whole UK. This is what I expected as the EU would be concerned that if the UK left who may be next.

[1959_60]

You could have brought up the fact that one third of LibDem voters voted to leave, but you let that one lie. Is it just that one third of LibDems are aging racists, or is there another reason for them voting to leave ? Why would you rather discuss the motives of BNP supporters (the few hundred of them) rather than your own ?

i'm happy to discuss the Lib Dem leavers Sinkov.

We have several members of our local party who are Brexiteers and we have had a few debates about Brexit. There is not one specific reason why they want Brexit but we chat about it in a respectful way without any hint of animosity.

I the Lib Dems all policy is voted on by the members at conferences. Whatever the members vote for becomes party policy. I recently voted against a couple of policy motions at conference and was on the losing side.

But we believe that political parties should state clearly what it's policies are - even if they are at variance with current public opinion.

If all parties created policies based solely on public opinion then they would all share a common manifesto.

So Brexiteers within the party are encouraged to voice their views and, at the end of the day, the party members will decide.

Seems like a very fair way to go about your business?

As a result of brexit many have left the party while still more new recruits have joined.