England

[AdiSalisbury]

Oh, and 6-0 might look good but Bulgaria were the worst international side I can remember. Spain or Germany would have reached double figures.

Maybe, but 10 years ago we would've only just scraped by.

[ramAnag]

I' m not saying its not wrong, and very sensitive to it as the loving/protective father figure of two coloured lads who I consider family. My point is that the issue is given massively more exposure than other totally valid ones. When was the last time you heard 10,000 blokes chanting 'you black b^stard? When was the last time you heard 10,000 blokes chanting 'you fat b^stard'?

Take your point Andy...unfortunately people have some sort of propensity for cruelty and those who are conspicuously overweight, tall, short, big nosed, big eared etc have always been targeted by those who wish to detract away from their own inadequacies by ridiculing others.
Unfortunately it’s not really the sort of thing one can really legislate against and neither is it an example of one section of society seeking to alienate another on the basis of perceivable difference.

Even in the bad old days of the ‘50’s and ‘60’s when signs such as ‘no Blacks, no Irish, no Dogs’ were all too prevalent it didn’t extend to discriminating against individuals on the basis of their size, shape or relative attractiveness. We don’t have areas of cities, invariably the poorer ones, dominated by fat or short people and we don’t have areas of the country showing a noticeable reluctance to accept individuals on the basis of their size or shape so perhaps racial as opposed to other forms of discrimination are not entirely comparable.

[Andy_Faber]

Take your point Andy...unfortunately people have some sort of propensity for cruelty and those who are conspicuously overweight, tall, short, big nosed, big eared etc have always been targeted by those who wish to detract away from their own inadequacies by ridiculing others.
Unfortunately it’s not really the sort of thing one can really legislate against and neither is it an example of one section of society seeking to alienate another on the basis of perceivable difference.

Even in the bad old days of the ‘50’s and ‘60’s when signs such as ‘no Blacks, no Irish, no Dogs’ were all too prevalent it didn’t extend to discriminating against individuals on the basis of their size, shape or relative attractiveness. We don’t have areas of cities, invariably the poorer ones, dominated by fat or short people and we don’t have areas of the country showing a noticeable reluctance to accept individuals on the basis of their size or shape so perhaps racial as opposed to other forms of discrimination are not entirely comparable.

Its a complex subject but as we are in the age of the hate crime, hate towards a fatso a shortarse or a ginger nut is IMO equal to someone of a different skin colour and I'm surprised as a former schoolteacher that this isn't your view too. But as you know its the media/public sector/non-valued-added profession obsession with being seen to be 'ahead of the political correctness game' that I have an issue with.

[MadAmster]

Agree Andy, bullying is never OK.

[ramAnag]

Its a complex subject but as we are in the age of the hate crime, hate towards a fatso a shortarse or a ginger nut is IMO equal to someone of a different skin colour and I'm surprised as a former schoolteacher that this isn't your view too. But as you know its the media/public sector/non-valued-added profession obsession with being seen to be 'ahead of the political correctness game' that I have an issue with.

I think you misunderstand me Andy. I am equally opposed to all forms of bullying and as a former teacher I would, and did, take an equally strong stance against name calling like ‘fat b***ard as much as ‘Paki b***ard’

Like you I’m also no great fan of political correctness but unlike you I do think there have been occasions when it has been used in a beneficial way.

The difference, for me, between racism and other forms of bullying is that the former is often more sinister and more heavily institutionally orchestrated.

To belittle racism because you believe it receives more media attention than other more individualised forms of bullying makes little sense to me.

[Andy_Faber]

I think you misunderstand me Andy. I am equally opposed to all forms of bullying and as a former teacher I would, and did, take an equally strong stance against name calling like ‘fat b***ard as much as ‘Paki b***ard’

Like you I’m also no great fan of political correctness but unlike you I do think there have been occasions when it has been used in a beneficial way.

The difference, for me, between racism and other forms of bullying is that the former is often more sinister and more heavily institutionally orchestrated.

To belittle racism because you believe it receives more media attention than other more individualised forms of bullying makes little sense to me.

100% not belittling it

[Geoff Parkstone]

And so it starts... The Apprentice is accused of racism since the first 3 candidates fired are "BAME". No mention of the fact that the individuals in question were useless.

Now in mitigation of the allegation, it must be said that all 16 candidates are utterly inept and so anyone could have been fired. But they weren't.

But honestly, the "you only fired me cuz I is black" argument does way more harm to the cause in this sort of situation. Why do the media rake up this *******s.

[ramAnag]

100% not belittling it

Probably not intentionally but each time you seek to compare, wholly unacceptable, name calling with actual racism that is what you are effectively doing.

Equally each time you return to your regular hobby horse of the BBC’s attitude to ‘cultural diversity’ and your suggestion that it over indulges in ‘positive discrimination’...the effect is the same.

As a point of order it might be useful to introduce some facts into the argument here. Offcom’s most recent research into BBC1 and BBC2’s peak time content analysis revealed that, in 2018, just 12.5% of the BBC’s TV population was made up of ‘minority ethnics’.

Interestingly the same source revealed that comparative gender figures were 62% male compared with 38% female. Maybe you need to rethink your target.

[swaledale]

Agreeing with this and my report from 'outside the bubble' is that this and the doughnutting of people of colour into every possible tv news report and current affairs programme increasingly pi**es off many.

Oh I see, so any from of positive action to try and readdress the imbalance, whether that be between gender or race pisses you off? Mm a stance that can only be taken by someone who has been in a privileged position of not having their life chances negatively effected by previous social and cultural norms!

If your saying that these people who now appear on TV programmes are not competent at the job irrespective of their race or gender, thats a fair point, if your objecting to the fact that an effort has been made to give opportunities to all capable people regardless of their gender or race then you dont have a point worth making.

You don't have to go very far back in history to see that woman didn't have the vote, couldn't work after marriage, were basically the property of their husband after marriage, were subject to unacceptable ***ual harassment without redress or if your black or a person of colour were actively discriminated against in terms of jobs, housing, police action, education and abuse and intimidation in the streets.

Of course there will be flaws in how human beings attempt to change cultural and social norms, but thats the nature of human activities, which is why simple statements like yours are meaningless, other than an insight into the prejudices you hold.

[ramAnag]

I seldom if ever feel naive on here but I’d never heard the term ‘doughnutting’ before so I looked it up on the ‘Urban Dictionary’.
I’m still non the wiser but I’ll never look at a doughnut - or Andy - in quite the same way again...have a go - at looking it up...not using the hole in the doughnut the way they suggest.