O/T - general election 2019

[ragingpup]

It's currently 19%.

Wonder what the comparison with these countries is on Business Rates? Pretty sure UK businesses pay more than German and French companies combined.

That's a good point, and one that has to be in mind when setting corporation taxes and ensuring the overall package is fair to business when comparing to international competition.

[frogmiller]

A someone earning £80k a year is not necessarily wealthy.

It might put someone in the top 10% of earners but they are working for it. Might be a bloke bringing up a family of 5 with that. Goes out to work, doing 160 odd hours a month and what do you think he comes out with in net pay? Always Labours problem this. You try and target people who probably deserve that bit more due to their work/profession etc and try and dress it up as though they've literally got £1000's more of disposable wealth in their back pocket.

If you want to really tax the wealthy come up with some new sound bytes. Look at disposal income, property wealth, inheritance tax and all the other areas that smell of filthy rich, rather than come with the same old crap.

People earning the top 10% are not the 10% wealthiest people in our society. Far from it. It's the problem with your politics. You want to dress up everything else as a lie or 'extreme, yet you post garbage like this.

No appetite for competition, wealth creation or fair play. Usual shop steward mentality.

Excellent post

[howdydoo]

You might have missed the post where I said that Labour should avoid ‘wealth bashing’ and that we absolutely should respect the hard work put in by the vast majority of workers, from the richest to those on lowest incomes propped up by the tax payer. People’s hard work isn’t in question: as shank says it’s a question of fairness and how do we go about paying for what we feel we need. I agree with you that any party should look at all ways of doing this and I think Labour for one are exploring variations of the ones you suggest, but all will be branded as ‘extreme’ and ‘wealth bashing’, whichever they choose. In fact they already have for the very measures you suggest. They aren’t “new sound bites”, they are already on the table. We’ll see from the different party’s manifestos what they will focus on. The Conservatives have proposed big spending also – that’s good to hear from someone who wants good financing of essential services, but how do you think they intend topay for this, whilst giving a 10 billion tax break to people in the top 10%?

You raised the question of tax cuts being extreme? I gave you a line of how our corporation tax compares to our competitive rivals and we are EXTREMELY low by comparison. Is that extreme I asked? Why no answer to that? If you can throw easy ‘extreme’ accusations at Labour policies, perhaps I can do likewise and expect at least an attempt at a response? Sorry but it seems that you want to hush up extreme policies when it favours the more well off?

I don't think we compete at all with our rivals. I think the corporation tax rates have been cut to attract significant overseas investment. I don't think it's extreme. I don't think it's been particularly successful either but I can understand the thinking behind it. We don't make anything. We could look at privatisation to try and kick start the economy but I honestly don't believe it will ever work in this country.

Reduced corporation tax might bring in investment from overseas. I have no quibble with ideas designed to attract people that create wealth. Sure as hell need to enforce it though. Amazon, Ebay, Facebook etc etc.

As for tax in general. all the parties are clueless. There's a massive imbalance and too much avoidance. The system does not help itself.

I'll give you one potty example. I've just been paid a fair sum of money for a share of a business. There's a sizeable amount of tax to be paid due to increase in value of them. I've spoken to my accountant and said, I want to pay it straight away. He says I can do that and pay it on account but in reality I don't have to pay it for 18 months. Same things happen with bonuses, higher tax etc. FFS just take the tax as soon as monies are paid. This is the story everywhere and it just fuels avoidance. Got no issue with any government changing the rules there.

We keep going on about lack of housing. Just go out and inspect every house in the country. If it's derelict and uninhabited take it into public hands for lowest market value. Do it up and put people in there. Affordable housing. Easy.

NHS and Education = waste, waste, waste. Local government same. Just full of greedy militants.

Someone needs to press a reset button and change the existing rules. Not reinvent the wheel like Corbyn suggests.

I don't want to hush anything up. I wasn't born with a silver spoon, nor do I need any help from anyone or need my arse wiping for me. If I can work and provide for my family and help them, that's what I'd rather do than pay more into a broken system.

The irony of it all, is that you want to appear the good guy on here. Take a 2nd job, a 3rd job. You won't be paying as much or helping as much as the people you want to defeat.

As I've told you before go for the filthy rich and major landowners. As someone who provides jobs and could be considered one of those 'shopkeepers' who drive our economy, a Corbyn win will generate less taxation from these people, rather than more. We'll just down tools just like him and his disciples love doing.

You didn't answer my question earlier. How big are these companies that Corbyn is going to give to the workers?

[ragingpup]

I don't think we compete at all with our rivals. I think the corporation tax rates have been cut to attract significant overseas investment. I don't think it's extreme. I don't think it's been particularly successful either but I can understand the thinking behind it. We don't make anything. We could look at privatisation to try and kick start the economy but I honestly don't believe it will ever work in this country.

Reduced corporation tax might bring in investment from overseas. I have no quibble with ideas designed to attract people that create wealth. Sure as hell need to enforce it though. Amazon, Ebay, Facebook etc etc.

As for tax in general. all the parties are clueless. There's a massive imbalance and too much avoidance. The system does not help itself.

I'll give you one potty example. I've just been paid a fair sum of money for a share of a business. There's a sizeable amount of tax to be paid due to increase in value of them. I've spoken to my accountant and said, I want to pay it straight away. He says I can do that and pay it on account but in reality I don't have to pay it for 18 months. Same things happen with bonuses, higher tax etc. FFS just take the tax as soon as monies are paid. This is the story everywhere and it just fuels avoidance. Got no issue with any government changing the rules there.

We keep going on about lack of housing. Just go out and inspect every house in the country. If it's derelict and uninhabited take it into public hands for lowest market value. Do it up and put people in there. Affordable housing. Easy.

NHS and Education = waste, waste, waste. Local government same. Just full of greedy militants.

Someone needs to press a reset button and change the existing rules. Not reinvent the wheel like Corbyn suggests.

I don't want to hush anything up. I wasn't born with a silver spoon, nor do I need any help from anyone or need my arse wiping for me. If I can work and provide for my family and help them, that's what I'd rather do than pay more into a broken system.

The irony of it all, is that you want to appear the good guy on here. Take a 2nd job, a 3rd job. You won't be paying as much or helping as much as the people you want to defeat.

As I've told you before go for the filthy rich and major landowners. As someone who provides jobs and could be considered one of those 'shopkeepers' who drive our economy, a Corbyn win will generate less taxation from these people, rather than more. We'll just down tools just like him and his disciples love doing.

You didn't answer my question earlier. How big are these companies that Corbyn is going to give to the workers?

Again good points Howdy. I think that the housing idea has been discussed and yes it got hammered as stealing property from the owners. Quite militant.

I agree that we shouldn’t be dogmatic. In theory incentivising businesses through tax cuts should work in creating wealth that in turn benefits the public kitty – it should ‘trickle down’. But no conclusive evidence suggests that it actually does and every economic forecast I have read has said that there is no way on earth that Boris’s idea of raising the tax threshold will pay for the 10 billion cost to us taxpayers. If it did trickle down, evidence should be easy to see in increased tax revenues for services. But it doesn’t and arguments for and against are only speculative. But one thing we know for sure is that X% cut to corporation tax will cost the treasury £X and that there is no evidence to show that it comes back, either in tax or in any other way.

With this in mind, what would you say is and isn’t an extreme corporation tax when considering the rates in our competing countries?
You suggest go for the filthy rich (quite wealth-bashy there if I may say so ) and property owners. That is certainly on Labour’s agenda in their own progressive way. Out of interest, what would be your ‘top rate’ of interest on the ‘filthy rich’ and what would you consider to be a fair amount to tax their income?

I don't think I'm any better person than anyone else on here, so don't know why you keep raising this. I just agree with Redshank's comments that it isn't to do witth envy, or goodness - just being better at and moving in the general direction of fairness

Sorry for missing your question. I think Labour were talking about companies with over 250 employees when they discussed that idea. No idea what that might be if it makes it into the manifesto though.

[wendun]

The Uriah Heep of MM. Insincere, ingratiating, patronising, prolix beyond tedium and endless cut and paste.

[Exiletyke]

The Uriah Heep of MM. Insincere, ingratiating, patronising, prolix beyond tedium and endless cut and paste.

What's Kerr ever done to you wendun?

[frogmiller]

I have a question.

Do any of you think that taking the NHS out of the hands of the politicians and putting it in some sort of trust will help the NHS?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

I have a question.

Do any of you think that taking the NHS out of the hands of the politicians and putting it in some sort of trust will help the NHS?

Probably not. It would just add another level of paper shifters being paid to run it.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Another question

What do MPs Marsha De Cordova (Labour), Sarah Champion (Labour) and Boris Johnson (Conservative) have in common?

[great_fire]

I have a question.

Do any of you think that taking the NHS out of the hands of the politicians and putting it in some sort of trust will help the NHS?

No, the whole thing needs to be replaced by a different system, either the European Bismarck system or the Australian National Insurance system, both better performing than the NHS.

Any extra money for the NHS either goes into creating extra layers of management or on staff salaries, it doesn't get to the patients.