Justin Fashanu to be inducted into Hall of Fame

[navypie]

I agree that political correctness can go too far but when you think of Fashanu (disowned by his brother and ending up killing himself) then Charlie Palmer (talking about as a youngster getting chased by people who wanted to beat him up for being black) you realise just how far we have come in a relatively short space of time. We're talking about the 1970s and 1980s here, in most of our lifetimes and certainly not prehistoric times.

I think there's a prevailing view on here that political correctness is not necessary as we are all basically pretty decent to each other and in the 70s we just liked to engage in a bit of Carry On style banter which was well received by everybody, but if you just think about it for a second it wasn't like that at all.

I remember the 70's and 80's, goes without saying that racism and homophobia were rife. I remember a friend of mine who worked in a clothes shop ( Limeys or summat like that on Long Row ) telling me Fashuna was gay and indeed, had a crush on him. He was straight btw. I loved Fash as a player for Notts , but what I loved more how clearly Brian Clough hated him. I remember thinking how brave when he came out but in the end, it killed him.

ps. Times have changed for the better but saying black coffee instead without milk is racist, nor is saying I don't agree with same *** marriage, homophobic.

[upthemaggies]

but what I loved more is how clearly Brian Clough hated him.,

I remember Clough being interviewed live on Central News by Keith Daniel after he'd retired, around the time F-word were having issues with one of their players (Collymore I think), Clough then began to compare him with a player he'd had problems with and added, in an alarmingly disparaging tone, "same colour 'n all", presumably referring to Fash. Given how many black players Clough put out over the years I was quite shocked by his attitude, but as with Atkinson, being a product of a different era, you're not going to be on the correct side of the line at all times. It would have been a big deal if he'd said that today however.

[navypie]

I remember Clough being interviewed live on Central News by Keith Daniel after he'd retired, around the time F-word were having issues with one of their players (Collymore I think), Clough then began to compare him with a player he'd had problems with and added, in an alarmingly disparaging tone, "same colour 'n all", presumably referring to Fash. Given how many black players Clough put out over the years I was quite shocked by his attitude, but as with Atkinson, being a product of a different era, you're not going to be on the correct side of the line at all times. It would have been a big deal if he'd said that today however.

Do you think in time that the stature might have to come down? Not something I would like to see but I'd never argue against it if the PC lot get their teeth into it, I have a family to think of after all.

[DaveSmithRules]

ps. Times have changed for the better but saying black coffee instead without milk is racist, nor is saying I don't agree with same *** marriage, homophobic.

Your coffee example is ridiculous. But saying you don't agree with gay marriage is the very definition of homophobic. In the same way that if I said I didn't agree with white people getting married that would be racist.

If you can't see that it's probably because you're homophobic and in denial about it.

[navypie]

Your coffee example is ridiculous. But saying you don't agree with gay marriage is the very definition of homophobic. In the same way that if I said I didn't agree with white people getting married that would be racist.

If you can't see that it's probably because you're homophobic and in denial about it.

My coffee? I don't agree with same *** marriage , never will. If you wanna shove homophobic down my neck , so be it.

[Lullapie]

Your coffee example is ridiculous. But saying you don't agree with gay marriage is the very definition of homophobic. In the same way that if I said I didn't agree with white people getting married that would be racist.

I disagree. I don't agree with Gay Marriage being forced on churches that don't want to marry same *** couples, but I do believe in Gay Marriage in establishments that embrace it. From what you are saying, in your opinion, that would make me 'homophobic' (boy I hate that word), but if you knew my circumstances, you couldn't be further from the truth.

[DaveSmithRules]

I disagree. I don't agree with Gay Marriage being forced on churches that don't want to marry same *** couples, but I do believe in Gay Marriage in establishments that embrace it. From what you are saying, in your opinion, that would make me 'homophobic' (boy I hate that word), but if you knew my circumstances, you couldn't be further from the truth.

Lulla. Same *** marriage has been a legal requirement in the UK for six years. Churches should not be allowed to pick and choose which bits of the law they adhere. Ultimately, when we're talking about churches we are talking about the opinion of people, not bricks and mortar. If those people don't want to tolerate UK law then they should have the marriage licence for their building revoked.

[Notsohumblepie]

Lulla. Same *** marriage has been a legal requirement in the UK for six years. Churches should not be allowed to pick and choose which bits of the law they adhere. Ultimately, when we're talking about churches we are talking about the opinion of people, not bricks and mortar. If those people don't want to tolerate UK law then they should have the marriage licence for their building revoked.

It's not a requirement, it's an option,and by definition can be exercised, or not. The same applies to any religious organisation that conducts marriage ceremonies. The only element of compulsion quite properly relates to registrars.

[SwalePie]

Nottingham Post piece on his move from Rushcliffe to Nottingham....

Love this bit:

"In those days Fashanu was the top earner at Forest, on £800-a-week equating to £40k-a-year. I said to Justin that our top-paid player was on £400-a-week. ‘OK, I will take it,’ he agreed."

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport...r-cent-3864157

[Lullapie]

I remember the 70's and 80's, goes without saying that racism and homophobia were rife. I remember a friend of mine who worked in a clothes shop ( Limeys or summat like that on Long Row ) telling me Fashuna was gay and indeed, had a crush on him. He was straight btw. I loved Fash as a player for Notts , but what I loved more how clearly Brian Clough hated him. I remember thinking how brave when he came out but in the end, it killed him.

ps. Times have changed for the better but saying black coffee instead without milk is racist, nor is saying I don't agree with same *** marriage, homophobic.

I remember going to watch Notts in the 70s and 80s and I remember very little about abuse to gay footballers, or even players people perceived as gay. During that era, the scariest thing was when visiting fans (and home fans at away games) labelled every fan from Nottingham a 'Scab'. Trips to games in Yorkshire became very scary.

There was more abuse towards non-white players then, just as there was generally to non-white people in society. The gay thing never ever came up in conversation with people I knew, but then again nor did the colour of peoples' skin.

Justin Fashanu was a run of the mill professional footballer. He scored a speculative goal for Norwich v Liverpool and that gave him the million pound price tag. I think Cloughie must have been having an off day when he signed him and regretted it ever since. He never did it for any club he played for after that - was it because he was an openly gay man? I don't know, but I don't see what bearing that has on the fact of his ability.

John Fashanu was a much better all round player.