O/T:- Are we over-reacting to COVD19?

[drillerpie]

I’m sure you didn’t just cherry pick the countries you put here BFP because that would devalue your point wouldn’t it!

Links to data about hospital beds and intensive care beds per capita.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._hospital_beds

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc...fographic/amp/

[forwardmagpie]

If you’ve got figures that don’t suggest our ICU capacity is completely sh!t in comparison with other high income countries feel free to put them up.

Okay - So you did cherry pick them

[BigFatPie]

Okay - So you did cherry pick them

Please look at the links that Driller has provided.

[forwardmagpie]

Please look at the links that Driller has provided.

But Drillers links aren’t where you got your info from are they BFP.

To clear this up could you post the link to where you got your information from?

[BigFatPie]

But Drillers links aren’t where you got your info from are they BFP

Yes, the figures are from the same source Driller linked to. Are you going to provide any different info, because I’ve got haemorrhoids to attend to, and it would be preferable to carrying on this exchange much further.

[forwardmagpie]

Yes, the figures are from the same source Driller linked to. Are you going to provide any different info, because I’ve got haemorrhoids to attend to, and it would be preferable to carrying on this exchange much further.

Are you sure BFP as the countries and figures from the site Driller posted don’t match yours, I think you need to deal with those haemorrhoids as soon as possible.

[Davy500]

I would say that that the 'sensible precautions' are to follow the advice given by the Chief Medical Officer and DHSC Chief Scientific Adviser who is certainly more qualified than me and I suspect more qualified than you to give guidance. He has been advocating phased approach, but with extra precautions for those groups who are most vulnerable.

You seem to have dodged the point that by putting generally fit, well and younger folk into an excessive level of isolation, you only delay the spike and potentially cause an even bigger one down the line, because a degree of exposure to threats is required to keep our immune systems active and in a state of readiness for something like this.



My statistics weren't misleading. I compared the number of deaths against the total population whereas you compared the number of deaths amongst those known to have contracted COVID-19, which is an unverified figure anyway. It's simply a case of which context you wish to use. Talking of context...

On average in Italy every year there are around 4,000 suicides amongst a population of circa 60 million. The current Coronavirus death toll in Italy is around 1,440 which in terms of the number of infections is high and the toll could reach similar proportions to the suicide rate this year if not more, but COVID-19 will be very time limited in its impact, whereas the suicide rate has been fairly constant for at least two decades. Plus, where Coronavirus is known to be most dangerous to people who are old or have underlying health conditions, mental health issues have a wider effect across all ages.

The media are obsessed with COVID-19 because it is a new phenomenon that gives them 'breaking' stories and new figures every day and it is not 'routine'. Meanwhile, mental health issues which will cause the death of many more people, consistently year after year, barely get mentioned unless someone famous happens to end their lives, or an anonymous person's suicide is especially dramatic.

The media are not motivated by the 'public interest'. They are motivated by selling their products, and to do so they seek the kind of originality and drama that COVID-19 will provide globally for a period of time. Meanwhile 800,000 people across the world kill themselves each year and most go completely unnoticed, even though this is a much bigger, longer running, permanent 'story'. It just doesn't shift newspapers or attract viewers the same way.

The quote there is no news like BAD news, sums up this nonsense that the press are massively over dramatising for their own benefit

[jackal2]

I don't care about the media. Why are you obsessed with the media? Do you think the Chinese government's reaction was dictated by pressure from the media? Bear in mind the Chinese government and the Chinese media are one and the same. Please address this gaping logical crevice in your argument before writing anything else about the media.

Well I thought it was obvious but I perhaps should have been specific. I am of course referring to the Western/European and especially the UK media's approach rather than the Chinese media who are obviously a completely different entity. I haven't seen their coverage. I do take yours and sidders' point that not all western 'meejia' are equal offenders, but some are definitely placing sensationalism above sensible reporting and information.

Your posts are so full of contradictions it's getting hard to debate with you. You've just written that you are not arguing a point when in the previous paragraph you tried to argue precisely that point. I'm running out of ways to explain this to you, but I'll try one more.

Well I actually think it's your posts that are full of contradictions, but neither of us should be judge and jury in our own court.

350 deaths in Italy today, up from 200 yesterday. Almost a 100% increase in a country where the vast majority of people are at home 24/7. I hope the penny drops soon.

We know the type and trajectory of the illness and Italy is some way ahead of the UK, so prepare for similar figures here in due course, but this does not mean the measures being taken are wrong or that panicking or totally isolating ourselves will save more people. It means this virus will kill a significant number of people within a certain timeframe, only eased or delayed to a certain degree by any measures we take to control it. That's what viruses do. To put it bluntly, sh*t happens.

Only when the final death toll from COVID-19 is known will we truly be able to reflect on its relative scale as a pandemic compared with the likes of these, and its impact on the overall population relative to other causes of death.

For the time being the best thing to do is follow the advice of our public health experts in a calm, rational manner.

[jackal2]

I’ve got haemorrhoids to attend to

Trust you to pile in!

[optipez]

You can be rational and calm but still worried.
There is no cure other than your body's own defences ,oxygen may help.
It's looking like 3% mortality in developed countries apart from Italy which is having a dismal time of things.
In less developed countries with poorer facilities it may well go higher.
It seems to be more lethal to older and those with medical conditions but I wouldn't take too much comfort from that as no family is without the old and the sick or the unlucky.
We won't really know if any country has handled things better than others until it's history, a lock down now looks successful in Korea but you can't sustain it forever and anyone who has seen a graph of the Spanish flu epidemic will be alarmed at the second wave.
The herd immunity thing is getting a lot of stick but the science tends toward there being truth in it. It's brutal, may have been poorly expressed but until a vaccine is found every large country on the planet is basically going down that path even if they don't admit it because there's nothing else.

I'm no doctor but one piece of advice I've seen, (Dr John Campbell) on YouTube recommends vitamin D. Most people have a deficiency and a daily oral dose has proven to be efficacious in worthwhile studies against getting, and severity of respiratory viral and bacterial infections and by quite some degree.