O/T:- Mr George Floyd RIP

[upthemaggies]

The problem is what does the term 'racist' actually mean? To me Old_pie the poster doesn't come across as a racist at all in the nasty sense of the word where you automatically don't like people of a different race. In fact, I think a decade or two ago you might even have been considered a liberal! In some of your views on here however you come across as what I would term a mild 'generational racist'. By that I mean that I would guess that for the majority of your life England was a predominantly white country where people sang 'God save the Queen' with passion and felt a sense of Britishness (your word). I think that's changed forever, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse, but it's not the England you knew and loved. If I'm talking bollox here please correct me and I'll apologise, but it goes back to what I suggested before - that it's a form of evolution where the dinosaurs are gradually being replaced by a more modern species.

It's never going to go away, there's too much political traction to be gained at both ends of the political spectrum in either playing the race card or playing on people's fears.

With so much emphasis now being placed on race, I do worry we're going to see a lot more race hate crimes (including black attacks on whites) in the coming months. No, we shouldn't be brushing it under the carpet but what we're seeing now is fuel being poured onto the fire.

[since41]

The statues weren't put up because the guys were slavers - no-one said "oh he's brought in 5000 slaves, top man". Britain was built on exploitation. Bulldoze it down.

Where are the Black Lives Matters protests when Black people have and are still killing more Black people than probably any Whites have done?

Anyway I give up before I get to the point I put Swale in a difficult position.

Exactly, worth a watch for this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQEb...BP4wDSDCnVBf9s

[DaveSmithRules]

I was stopped, several times not just once, because I was profiled.

If you knew my life you would know that I'm fairly "colour blind". To be clear I agree there is no excuse for anyone who is supposed to uphold the law to use excessive force regardless. I was astounded that the officer and the others nearby weren't immediately arrested.

But I will still stop commenting because clearly I'm no longer entitled to a view and if you really believe I am institutionally racist then you've got a problem.

Oldpie - I don't think you're "no longer entitled to a view." But I do think a lot of white people in the UK need to realise that their experiences and views of racism are intrinsically different to those of black people. And frankly it's less important they are heard right now as white people have never suffered en mass from racism in this country. Do you really feel you need an equal view on every subject - including the ones that affect you less? Or are you one of the people in denial of modern-day racism because you feel a bit attacked by it as a older white man in changing times?

Honestly, unless you really think continuing on this thread is going to make you say something to 'put Swale in a difficult position' i'd encourage you to continue. I'm enjoying the debate I just don't want to see anyone get banned because of this thread.

I do get that you've suffered from other things (like getting profiled in an airport). But you need to understand that these are things that happen to all people. And by going on about them you're basically continually denying that racism exists by saying bad things happen to all people. That's fine, but it's a separate argument. There's general misfortune and there's institutional racism - these are two separate things. Black people experience both of those things, but you just have to deal with one of them. Do you understand?

[Riverleeno]

Exactly, worth a watch for this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQEb...BP4wDSDCnVBf9s

Thanks for the link. I'm not sure the title reflects the content properly but it was interesting to watch and hear the different speakers.

[Riverleeno]

Oldpie - I don't think you're "no longer entitled to a view." But I do think a lot of white people in the UK need to realise that their experiences and views of racism are intrinsically different to those of black people. And frankly it's less important they are heard right now as white people have never suffered en mass from racism in this country. Do you really feel you need an equal view on every subject - including the ones that affect you less? Or are you one of the people in denial of modern-day racism because you feel a bit attacked by it as a older white man in changing times?

Honestly, unless you really think continuing on this thread is going to make you say something to 'put Swale in a difficult position' i'd encourage you to continue. I'm enjoying the debate I just don't want to see anyone get banned because of this thread.

I do get that you've suffered from other things (like getting profiled in an airport). But you need to understand that these are things that happen to all people. And by going on about them you're basically continually denying that racism exists by saying bad things happen to all people. That's fine, but it's a separate argument. There's general misfortune and there's institutional racism - these are two separate things. Black people experience both of those things, but you just have to deal with one of them. Do you understand?

There is no 'debate' if someone has to agree with what you say.

[upthemaggies]

Facebook have apparently terminated all accounts linked to skinhead culture and ska music including that of Neville Staple of The Specials, who is black.

[BigFatPie]

Exactly, worth a watch for this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQEb...BP4wDSDCnVBf9s

I thought aliens didn’t exist, but there was a bloke on YouTube the other day saying he’d been anally probed by aliens so that’s proved me wrong.

[DaveSmithRules]

There is no 'debate' if someone has to agree with what you say.

I'm not saying that tho am I?

[DaveSmithRules]

For what it's worth #BlackLivesMatterToo would probably have been a much more palatable phrase / hashtag for many people to feel less attacked and defensive about this campaign. But it wouldn't have got anything like the media attention and therefore the public attention. Which is the point of what the campaign is trying to do.

[upthemaggies]

Exactly, worth a watch for this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQEb...BP4wDSDCnVBf9s

Those voices should definitely be heard. Don't agree with all of it but in general I'm far from convinced the #blacklivesmatter campaign is going to help, it's likely going to polarize people further and be disastrous for the left in the long run. Brexit and the last election were basically lost over the immigration issue, race in other words.