Trees

[mistaram]

Teams who pick up points when playing badly are often said to be a good side. Based on yesterday's little offering, we must be bloody excellent.

Hamer might have been slow to move for the goal. Positionally he was where he should be. If it was an error of judgment, it was the only one he made all afternoon.

The back 4 did much of their defensive work well with the exception of the backing off. Why allow players you know have a decent shot on them to proceed, unchallenged, to the edge of the box. 2nd minute Da Costa was allowed the freedom of Derby to move forward. Fortunately his shot went well over. 10 minutes later Lolley moved forward and simply picked his spot. Good shot.

Rooney had an off day and they gave him little or no time. Bird was also continually put under pressure and found it hard to play his normal game.

The midfield 3 played well and I find myself thinking they might be a tad lightweight.

Chrissy. Have you ever seen him run that much in a game? That was probably his first ever goal off his shoulder blade but who cares what it goes in off?

The team started slowly, too damned slowly IMO. We gave them room and they closed us down when we were in possession. Poor first half although we did perk up a bit in the last 10 minutes before the break.

Better 2nd half but the ball circulation was still way too slow giving them all the time in the world to close us down and/or get into position. That served only to make it hard to impossible for us to pass to a teammate without putting him under severe pressure so...... we went back to the centre halves or keeper who were then put under pressure. Dilly dallying saw us lose possession too frequently. On Wednesday at the Hawthorns we will need to move the ball much quicker. We will also need more movement off the ball to get into space to receive the ball. Bogle seems to have forgotten which way is forward and tends to stop and survey the terrain at his leisure once he received the ball. He used to get it an go, at speed. I'd like him to go back to that style of play.

Waggy's red card was correct. He went over the ball, studs up and it was clear what would happen. Not even his playacting, holding his face when there had been no contact above the shoulder didn't help and he won't be getting an Oscar nomination for that performance. For the WBA game we have 2 of our top 3 scorers banned. No pressure on Coldplay.......

Sibley was lucky to only get a yellow. I can only think the ref thought it was 2 simultaneous one legged tackles rather than a single 2 legged one........

Once they scored they changed shape to protect the lead. Something they do very well.

My thanks to Worrall (oad of rubbish) for that totally unnecessary foul which led to Chrissy's equaliser.

Basically, a point we didn't deserve but I won't be turning it down.

MA that's a fair account of what actually happened But our tactics were not good ,it was obvious from the news coming out of Notts in the week They would set up to stop us playing Nothing wrong with that but to counter that you have to be able to play out we can't do that with the team he selected They just put three cloggers in midfield and said have the ball but you ain't coming though the middle ,like we normally do

[ramAnag]

Yes but I don't see how your opinion holds? Your approach may and I stress MAY, result in promotion next year, but then all the issues which you mention - the team being good enough to cope in the prem etc still hold good, we are unlikely to recruit players that can play a level above until we actually get promoted. So what your essentially saying is wait a year, have another season in the prem and IF we get promoted then the situation would be different than if we go up this season?

But I don't see how it would, unless like Wolves we manage to recruit an agent and someone who can fund the acquisition of players that can go on to develop and become prem quality whilst we are n the championship, whenever or if ever we do go up, we will still have to strengthen the team to survive.

It’s all ‘ifs, buts and maybes’, Swale...we both know that.
My heart wants us to go up...don’t doubt that...my head says something different.

It’s my opinion, and only that, that if we go up in the next month or so we’ll be so far out of our depth that the amount of strengthening we’d need to even dream of surviving would be unaffordable.

Take yesterday...against more confident and experienced players most of the youngsters...certainly Knight, Lowe, Bogle and Bird...looked a little lost for most of the time.

That would, at the moment, be the case every week if we were to go up...and of the rest how many do you think are top flight players?

Come Wednesday night I’ll want us to win at the Hawthorns, to keep the dream alive, but I won’t be too disappointed to ‘wake up’ and recognise that we’ll stand a better chance in a years time when Sibley, Knight, Bird, Bogle and possibly Lowe (I have my doubts) and maybe Hector-Ingram (don’t know enough) are another year older and stronger and Cocu has had a better opportunity to stamp himself on the squad.

The downside maybe that, on recent evidence, Rooney won’t be around for season 21/22. Still got the football brain and all the touches and delivery skills, but in terms of fitness I think he’s lost something since lockdown...unfortunately it ain’t from around his waistline.

[mistaram]

It’s all ‘ifs, buts and maybes’, Swale...we both know that.
My heart wants us to go up...don’t doubt that...my head says something different.

It’s my opinion, and only that, that if we go up in the next month or so we’ll be so far out of our depth that the amount of strengthening we’d need to even dream of surviving would be unaffordable.

Take yesterday...against more confident and experienced players most of the youngsters...certainly Knight, Lowe, Bogle and Bird...looked a little lost for most of the time.

That would, at the moment, be the case every week if we were to go up...and of the rest how many do you think are top flight players?

Come Wednesday night I’ll want us to win at the Hawthorns, to keep the dream alive, but I won’t be too disappointed to ‘wake up’ and recognise that we’ll stand a better chance in a years time when Sibley, Knight, Bird, Bogle and possibly Lowe (I have my doubts) and maybe Hector-Ingram (don’t know enough) are another year older and stronger and Cocu has had a better opportunity to stamp himself on the squad.

The downside maybe that, on recent evidence, Rooney won’t be around for season 21/22. Still got the football brain and all the touches and delivery skills, but in terms of fitness I think he’s lost something since lockdown...unfortunately it ain’t from around his waistline.

RA the trouble with Rooney is he shouldn't be playing twice a week Wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start on Wednesday we will need legs in midfield against them that's for sure . Gets tiring chasing shadows that Peirra will run the show some player he is We probably need to save Rooney for Brentford they have 24hrs more rest than us ,that's important at this stage of the season

[MadAmster]

MA that's a fair account of what actually happened But our tactics were not good ,it was obvious from the news coming out of Notts in the week They would set up to stop us playing Nothing wrong with that but to counter that you have to be able to play out we can't do that with the team he selected They just put three cloggers in midfield and said have the ball but you ain't coming though the middle ,like we normally do

We appear to have got so used to going down the middle they have forgotten how to cross. How many attempts were just way too overhit?

Holmes, Sibs and Knight are all decent players but as a trio, a bit on the light side, despite Sibs' "edge".

Play the slow game again on Wednesday and we will get hammered, simple. The ball circulation has to be at a much higher tempo. The one and two touch game we played at PNE had them in all sorts of bother first half. We need that again at the Hawthorns.

[MadAmster]

Having seen the reports that Martin has a possible cracked rib, I had a look at the highlights on the club site. What did I see? When Chrissy turned to shoulder the ball over the line, he took a kick to the ribs from Cash. That is probably the cause of tgeh bruise/crack/whatever although he didn't seem to be feeling it when cheering.

I wonder if the EFL/FA will have a retrospective look at it...........

[Geoff Parkstone]

rather than punish cash, they could rescind Waghorn's red to compensate.

The concept of retrospective justice has always seemed a tad unfair to me. For example we could lose a player for the rest of the season and in this case Fulham, Preston and Swansea would benefit as Cash would be banned against them, at least two of which could be regarded as out rivals for 6th. Its lose lose.

Reality is that I hope he does not get retro-punished, as I'd sooner that he, as one of their better players, does get to play Preston and Swansea.

I know that you can say the same of any red card, but at least if a player is sent off in, say, the 70th minute for maybe breaking another players leg, the victims get 20 minutes to get some slight edge. Same could be said of Waghorn, albeit that he only missed a few minutes and its also well known that we come back against Forest when we only have 10 men!

[mistaram]

We appear to have got so used to going down the middle they have forgotten how to cross. How many attempts were just way too overhit?

Holmes, Sibs and Knight are all decent players but as a trio, a bit on the light side, despite Sibs' "edge".

Play the slow game again on Wednesday and we will get hammered, simple. The ball circulation has to be at a much higher tempo. The one and two touch game we played at PNE had them in all sorts of bother first half. We need that again at the Hawthorns.

MA yes much to lightweight that trio be inclined to put Shinnie in there or even bring Davies back and put Evans in there otherwise Livermore will eat those three

[mistaram]

Having seen the reports that Martin has a possible cracked rib, I had a look at the highlights on the club site. What did I see? When Chrissy turned to shoulder the ball over the line, he took a kick to the ribs from Cash. That is probably the cause of tgeh bruise/crack/whatever although he didn't seem to be feeling it when cheering.

I wonder if the EFL/FA will have a retrospective look at it...........

No chance of them looking at that just part of the game Not like it was premeditated like the Preston one

[mistaram]

6 months ago and we'd have been very happy at getting a point from the trees! Yes todays performance wasn't the best but if a team is picking up points whilst not being at their best then its a good sign.

We never thought we'd be close to the play offs anyway - RA will be happy if we miss out, but there is still every chance of getting in 6th place. It ain't over until the rather large feminine person sings!

Yes I would have been happy with a point ,if it was deserved but it was far from that .If your picking up points whilst not playing well it's not a good sign at all It just means you have been lucky But I think we have to put things into perspective the starting eleven only three cost us a fee and that only came to £645,000 I wonder how much the trees squad cost

[swaledale]

It’s all ‘ifs, buts and maybes’, Swale...we both know that.
My heart wants us to go up...don’t doubt that...my head says something different.

It’s my opinion, and only that, that if we go up in the next month or so we’ll be so far out of our depth that the amount of strengthening we’d need to even dream of surviving would be unaffordable.

Take yesterday...against more confident and experienced players most of the youngsters...certainly Knight, Lowe, Bogle and Bird...looked a little lost for most of the time.

That would, at the moment, be the case every week if we were to go up...and of the rest how many do you think are top flight players?

Come Wednesday night I’ll want us to win at the Hawthorns, to keep the dream alive, but I won’t be too disappointed to ‘wake up’ and recognise that we’ll stand a better chance in a years time when Sibley, Knight, Bird, Bogle and possibly Lowe (I have my doubts) and maybe Hector-Ingram (don’t know enough) are another year older and stronger and Cocu has had a better opportunity to stamp himself on the squad.

The downside maybe that, on recent evidence, Rooney won’t be around for season 21/22. Still got the football brain and all the touches and delivery skills, but in terms of fitness I think he’s lost something since lockdown...unfortunately it ain’t from around his waistline.

But thats my point RA, which you seem to miss completely, on what basis will we have a "better" chance in a years time? Sure the youngsters will ahve matured a little, but they won't become prem players within 12 months, nor will they necessarily be thatmuch better that we will be storming the championship.

I maintain that your opinion is not based on reality.

1. There will be players that will be out of their depth whether we go up this year or next.
2. Strengthening a team doesn't require wholesale changes two or three quality players in the right areas can make the others play better and change the team dynamic.
3. Promotion means millions more dosh, and we may even attract new investment, neither will happen in the championship.
4. As I've repeatedly said, going up, making a fist of it and coming back down isn't a bad thing IF its managed correctly. Burnley were a yo yo team and seem on a limited budget to be able to hold their own now.
5. Other teams will strengthen, plus theres always one of the relegated teams that are strong - I'd say Villa and Norwich will be strong contenders next season, if Bournemouth join them it could go either way with them.
6. We could lose our manager (based on recent experience) and some of our better players if we don't go up.

I don't think its likely we will even finish top 6, tomorrows game will tell, lose that and I'd say thats it. But its not a case of heart or head, its a case of if the opportunity comes take it, one never knows when the next one will come along. Anything else is supposition and assumption and being risk averse!