O/T Anyone still looking forward to taking holidays abroad?

[Brin]

Raging, I read it the first time no need to post it twice.

[ragingpup]

you call people on this site and that includes myself bigots because we are concerned bout uncontrolled immigration. That whats been happening for the last 25 years by most political parties, call people bigots rasists if the word immigration is mentioned. That's why 1600 young girls got raped and ***ually assaulted in Rotherham.

You don't have to be racist to be concerned about immigration. I am concerned about immigration and as I've said I would like us to be as water tight as possible on illegal immigration. I at least tried to grapple with Kerr's question of 'What answers do we have?' from my own ill informed perspective and can see the legal problems even with my ideas. But at least I tried - where are your ideas?

I haven't used the term racist, although if you look at the definition of racism as thinking that your own race or culture is superior to others, then I guess you don't have to look far to see it on these boards. Howdy says that he abhors the racist comments that appear on here, who do you think he is referring to? Monty admits that he is "a little bit racist".

There have been some good discussions on immigration on here - where has been the attempt to censor any of it? I get called all kinds of names for questioning easy answers or dubious data, does that make me a victim of cancel culture too?!

[ragingpup]

Raging, I read it the first time no need to post it twice.

Apologies all. Internet signal is fluctuating where I am and thought first attempt had fallen through

[howdydoo]

There hasn't been any good racist discussions on here. Neither has there ever been a proper discussion and condemnation of acts against young girls in the towns abuse scandal.

The discussion is always steered down the same road and stifles the debate. Assume a parent of a victim (highly likely) posts here. How do you think they view race and immigration? Potentially 3,000 parents of young girls in the borough. What do you they think and what language do you think they come out with?

The truth is, you don't give a shyte.

I've got a child who shared the same schools as their friends through infant and junior school. A couple of years ago they were refused admission to their preferred secondary school. How do you think, we as parents feel, that around 30 kids who have arrived in this country, in the last 3 years got places at that school? Fifty appeals went in, all refused out of hand. Is that fair? Nothing to with colour but immigration is a problem because we are country that's ended up apologising for everything. Let me be clear about one thing; the idle, left wing, working classes have brought a lot of it on themselves.

Frankly it's and if you don't see the problems and prefer to refer to everyone who doesn't share your views as bigots and racists, to support your ideals, so be it.

I hope it bites you on the arse.

[WanChaiMiller]

Howdy - I understand that people have concerns about immigration. Bit difficult to avoid as its a daily feature on all social media.* We've had huge numbers of threads and posts on the subject - probably more than football.

On the other side of the debate there are a few people on thid board who challenge those views (described by you as the mafia).

You have a habit in recent months of targeting thise certain posters - on many occasions with crude insults (I find it amusing that you resort to those insults btw).

I will put it out there that I think your objective is to rid the board of these members or certainly stifle their voice.

My question is why are you so afraid of opnions of people that hold different views to you?** Most other posters take the challenge and see it as a debate. Posters like Kerr take on left wing opinion but see it more as an intellectual challenge. Thats fine and that is what a message boards is for. You seem to take personal offence if people challenge you.

Do you see yourself in some way as 'policing the board' (Sheriff Howdy)? Id say if posters throw out their opinion they should be big enough to take a response.

Just my thoughts and how I see it recently.

[ragingpup]

There hasn't been any good racist discussions on here. Neither has there ever been a proper discussion and condemnation of acts against young girls in the towns abuse scandal.

The discussion is always steered down the same road and stifles the debate. Assume a parent of a victim (highly likely) posts here. How do you think they view race and immigration? Potentially 3,000 parents of young girls in the borough. What do you they think and what language do you think they come out with?

The truth is, you don't give a shyte.

I've got a child who shared the same schools as their friends through infant and junior school. A couple of years ago they were refused admission to their preferred secondary school. How do you think, we as parents feel, that around 30 kids who have arrived in this country, in the last 3 years got places at that school? Fifty appeals went in, all refused out of hand. Is that fair? Nothing to with colour but immigration is a problem because we are country that's ended up apologising for everything. Let me be clear about one thing; the idle, left wing, working classes have brought a lot of it on themselves.

Frankly it's and if you don't see the problems and prefer to refer to everyone who doesn't share your views as bigots and racists, to support your ideals, so be it.

I hope it bites you on the arse.

Again, you are distorting my posts and bringing up quite random issues. I have read loads of discussion on here and loads of condemnation of the authorities in Rotherham and other towns who as I've already said were cowardly. How is that not condemnation? Quite rightly the borough was stripped down and rebuilt under Government inspection. I have a young daughter, and can completely understand the anger the parents of victims would feel. But I would hope that I would not go into systematic stigmatisation of a whole culture in relentless posts on football message boards. Maybe I would but I don't think so. Are there any other issues you want to throw in here to conflate the arguments, to deflect from your lack of mature answers to any questions raised about immigration.

Your point about local residents missing out on school but seeing recent migrants into your area gain places is a valid one and I can see how that can raise anger from the resident community. But again, if these children have arrived with parents who are working valid jobs in the local economy then don't their kids deserve a place at a school in their catchment area? Did you get any answers about what criteria the schools were 'selecting' on? It's very difficult to see it without the school's point of view to take a balanced perspective. It certainly doesn't help the settling of migrants into the community if schools lack transparency.

I don't refer to everyone who disagrees with me as a bigot. I disagree with you on many things but don't think you're a bigot. I'm probably thinking about the same people that you were referring to when you said that you abhorred the racist comments posted on here. Or have you changed your mind again and are going back to there being no racism on the board? We're probably talking about the same posters, but you use the word racist and I use the word bigot. Why should I be accused of calling everyone racist, when I haven't used the word. Again, I think you are deflecting from your own lack of any answers to the problems. On the contrary, I see the problems, like the ones you raised above, but I struggle to find workable answers, as opposed to kneejerk, simplistic ones that won't work. Like you, I hope we use the extra controls over immigration wisely, but can you see the problem in putting in barriers to poor paid labour from overseas if we can't incentivise or skill up our own workers to take these jobs? I fear that our 'bare bones' attitude to the economy will mean that 1) we put in controls but then lack the workers to fill the positions, or 2) and more likely we will cut corners and find ways around letting in migrants to do those jobs and continue the angst. Cue the 'shoot them if they don't work for nothing' brigade

[ragingpup]

Howdy - I understand that people have concerns about immigration. Bit difficult to avoid as its a daily feature on all social media.* We've had huge numbers of threads and posts on the subject - probably more than football.

On the other side of the debate there are a few people on thid board who challenge those views (described by you as the mafia).

You have a habit in recent months of targeting thise certain posters - on many occasions with crude insults (I find it amusing that you resort to those insults btw).

I will put it out there that I think your objective is to rid the board of these members or certainly stifle their voice.

My question is why are you so afraid of opnions of people that hold different views to you?** Most other posters take the challenge and see it as a debate. Posters like Kerr take on left wing opinion but see it more as an intellectual challenge. Thats fine and that is what a message boards is for. You seem to take personal offence if people challenge you.

Do you see yourself in some way as 'policing the board' (Sheriff Howdy)? Id say if posters throw out their opinion they should be big enough to take a response.

Just my thoughts and how I see it recently.

Good points. A case in point being Roly. You may or may not agree with his views and how he expressed them, but he took dreadful abuse and requests to stop posting his opinions. What is that if it isn't policing the board/shutting down/cancel culture? (delete as you see fit). And Howdy calls us hypocrites!

[ragingpup]

I dont disagree

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53768254

I love Nick Cave. He's taken a lot of stick from PC people about issues in his songs over the years and I can see his point of view. However, I think that (as one of the critics of Cave's thoughts points out) that Cave is conflating PC criticism of his art with the 'cancel culture' which as I understand it, is about public responses to individual or corporate policies or attitudes that many of the public don't like and commentators urge to boycott etc. I love Cave's work, much as I love many other forms of art that some call un-PC!

The whole 'cancel culture' thing seems conflated and unintelligible to me. It seems like an attempt in itself to cancel free speech and consumer choice. I thought we were living in a 'free market of ideas'?!

[howdydoo]

Good points. A case in point being Roly. You may or may not agree with his views and how he expressed them, but he took dreadful abuse and requests to stop posting his opinions. What is that if it isn't policing the board/shutting down/cancel culture? (delete as you see fit). And Howdy calls us hypocrites!

No he didn't. Him and his friend Mikemiller started throwing false accusations and asking for bans.

The irony is, I never see you condemning these posters. The witch hunts, targeting certain posters needed to stop. Anything that isn't your view is devalued through pigeon holing. It's pathetic.

It's shop steward mentality and you always end up being the poor victims. Face to face, or on a message board, I ain't putting up with it.

Wanchai on cue. You talk bollox lads. Neither of you even live anywhere near Rotherham, yet you think you know what goes on.

Not going down this track for the up****th time.

Raging you seem obsessed with this bigot/racist issue. I've seen racist comment from people on here who are probably racist. I don't know their circumstances or their mindset. I don't believe every racist comment makes someone a racist though. I think there's been an element on here who play the race card to cheapen valid arguments. I think those people stifled this board long before I started throwing a bit of mud around.

I know how many labels have been thrown at my username and how much of it is fabricated bollox.

So I won't be calling anyone out as a racist because I think it's a serious accusation to be throwing around on a messageboard.

[ragingpup]

No he didn't. Him and his friend Mikemiller started throwing false accusations and asking for bans.

The irony is, I never see you condemning these posters. The witch hunts, targeting certain posters needed to stop. Anything that isn't your view is devalued through pigeon holing. It's pathetic.

It's shop steward mentality and you always end up being the poor victims. Face to face, or on a message board, I ain't putting up with it.

Wanchai on cue. You talk bollox lads. Neither of you even live anywhere near Rotherham, yet you think you know what goes on.

Not going down this track for the up****th time.

Raging you seem obsessed with this bigot/racist issue. I've seen racist comment from people on here who are probably racist. I don't know their circumstances or their mindset. I don't believe every racist comment makes someone a racist though. I think there's been an element on here who play the race card to cheapen valid arguments. I think those people stifled this board long before I started throwing a bit of mud around.

I know how many labels have been thrown at my username and how much of it is fabricated bollox.

So I won't be calling anyone out as a racist because I think it's a serious accusation to be throwing around on a messageboard.

I repeat, I haven't called anyone racist. This is something people keep accusing me of doing, but I haven't. I'm not the one who keeps raising it. Look back through the posts.

Roly got abuse for his opinions too as we all do who post any counter opinion to the general opinions expressed daily on here. I don't recall many times Wan or John are abusive
What is this abuse of not an attempt to discourage people from posting?

Can you be a bit more specific about the witch hunt please? Which posters have been witch hunted? I've seen some politely asked to provide evidence for their claims. But witch hunt? That implies persistent abuse and persecution, where have you seen this?

I don't see why I have to be from Rotherham to understand the issues faced by the town. All my family and many friends remain in Rotherham and I love the town. Although you make it sound a bit Royston Vasey at times "you doing understand us here"'