Transfer in's and out's rumours etc.

[WTF11]

Is it any wonder folk wonder about your flip flop attitude towards signings.... you don't like any of the signings/targets currently on international duty yet you approve of a player who played for a 2nd tier club and like Rodrigo has been sold in a firesale, yet from the 20 2nd tier matches he played as a CF he scored 1 goal.... I wish him well like all our signings but what is your logic in differential assessment of these signings???

I would have thought that was obvious, and I'm not "flip-flopping, as I made clear in my response to Mrs O.

The players from Spain and elsewhere have no English league experience, and despite what many would suggest, there is a huge difference, even between the Championship and the majority of what is played in Europe, particularly when the European situation applies to those outside the top 3 - 4 in each prime division. This was the point I made in response to BB and others, when I mentioned that PL clubs from top to bottom in the league have played a part in European competitions (often doing well), whereas once you get beyond the top 3 - 4 in premier European divisions the achievements are considerably inferior.

Remember all teh hoo hah there was when JKA was rumoured to be joining (Bundesliga player, then playing for Monaco in Ligue 1, big powerful etc etc etc)? I say again, proof of the pudding playing in the PL is when the player pulls on a shirt and does the business, not before. Try finding a comment from me where I said the player was rubbish, or I disliked him, or, or, or? I have always supported my opinions with fact (who they have played for, number of appearances, how many goals scored (if appropriate) etc). Whether you or others accept or like those facts is up to you

If we expect players from Europe to fit in with what most would suggest is a pretty individual system even for those who HAVE played either in PL or Championship before, then they (IMHO) need to be a bit more than those we have signed. i hope I am wrong, honestly I do.

As for the Gelhardt lad, sold in a firesale or not, Leeds weren't the only club interested, we will see if the interest was worth it (and if not, we have wasted not so much).

[whitestomper45]

Players with injuries aside (thats always a risk and up to now we have had to shop many times at that "take a chance/unearth a gem shop" to try unearth a bargain, the finished article has been out of our reach for a while.

You hone in on forwards scoring records, using Bamford's ratios as a reference. Why is a CF with the facts, as you say you go by, being that he has a record of 1 in 20 Championship games OK to you? He may well prove great but like the other signings he's never played PL nor as a full international as Rodrigo has. The Spanish league is ranked No1 in the club co-efficient table. The championship is not better than La Liga, yet 1 in 20 you seem happy with on this occasion.. it just seems strange

[WTF11]

Players with injuries aside (thats always a risk and up to now we have had to shop many times at that "take a chance/unearth a gem shop" to try unearth a bargain, the finished article has been out of our reach for a while.

You hone in on forwards scoring records, using Bamford's ratios as a reference. Why is a CF with the facts, as you say you go by, being that he has a record of 1 in 20 Championship games OK to you? He may well prove great but like the other signings he's never played PL nor as a full international as Rodrigo has. The Spanish league is ranked No1 in the club co-efficient table. The championship is not better than La Liga, yet 1 in 20 you seem happy with on this occasion.. it just seems strange

We may have had to shop in the bargain tubs instead of the top end delicatessen in the past, and there's nothing wrong with that, provided you pick and choose carefully. JKA is an example of where we didn't, same for Casilla (couldn't get a game with Barcelona but was still held up as the next big thing just because he was on their books). as both have already cost us big money (and the JKA thing still isn't settled, by a long way) it tells me that there are still way too many flaws in Ortas scouting selection, and either he isn't being overruled by Bielsa or he (Bielsa) is also capable of making a mistake or two (yes, he is!).

I don't "hone in" on any particular area of the park, I look at the characteristics of each player and the position they are expected to take up and comment accordingly. In the case of Gelhardt, he is 18, not 28, and performed well in the Championship as a squad player, admittedly his strike rate needs to improve. Its worth noting, as the international aspect is oft referred to, that despite needing to improve at club level, he has scored in internationals against Brazil (U16), Norway & Belgium, USA, Russia, Denmark and Sweden (all in U17 competitions), and played for England U18 against Australia. (Btw, I think criticising Gelhardt for not having played as "full international" is a low blow, very, he's just 19 ffs!). All the above at youth international levels hints/shows that with the right service, he knows where the net is. (Only a half a dozen or so clubs scored fewer goals that Wigan last season, so perhaps a youngster who knows how to find the net in internationals wasn't best serve at club level). As I said in the last post, if he turns out to be a dud (which I hope he doesn't as with ALL those who come to the club), the we have spent £1m finding out. If any of the players signed from Valencia, Freiburg or Udinese end up that way, we've spent a good deal more.

And where did I say the Championship was better than La Liga? I said that the PL is superior to just about ALL the European divisions and the success of English teams from all parts of the PL table in European competitions would suggest that is the case.

We are not going to agree, so I see little point in continuing this particular "back and forth". You have your opinion, I have mine, you have your reasons, I have mine. We will see whose evaluation is closest to the truth in a relatively short period of time (as long as they all get game time and stay healthy!)

[WTF11]

Isnt Guarvoli another one for the future same as Gelhard, or are they both game possibilities?

"one for the future" when he's worked out which net he's supposed to be defending?

"In the round of 16 against Bayern Munich on 4 March, Gvardiol reflected Leon Dajaku's shot into his own net to set the score to 2–2. In the resulting shootout, he successfully converted his attempt again as Dinamo won 6–5 and progressed to the quarter-finals.[14] On 25 June, Gvardiol signed a five-year contract with Dinamo.[15] On 5 July, in the derby against Rijeka when the league title was already mathematically secured, Gvardiol reflected Franko Andrijašević's shot into his own net as Rijeka won 2–0, which would eventually cost coach Igor Jovićević his job."

If you count own goals, that's three (not including penalty shoot outs!) in 11 appearances

Quite impressive!

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Ferdinand, Pallister, Radebe etc made a few howlers in their early days but didn’t mean they weren’t good players.

Cooper lost 6-1 to Liverpool when playing as a kid for Hull doesn’t mean he hasn’t progressed.

Who exactly would you sign WTF?

[WTF11]

Ferdinand, Pallister, Radebe etc made a few howlers in their early days but didn’t mean they weren’t good players.

Cooper lost 6-1 to Liverpool when playing as a kid for Hull doesn’t mean he hasn’t progressed.

Who exactly would you sign WTF?

I didn't say they didn't, just that 2 own goals in 11 matches is a bit "special".

As for who I'd sign, I think I've already said I would have had Benrahma and Watkins. Not sure about others, haven't really spent a lot of time researching (unlikely I'd ever get consulted!), although the young lad from Feyenoord Summerville looks quick and skillful, just a shame he's so lightweight (but you on't have to be built like a brick sh1thouse to play forward (although it helps (sometimes))

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Watkins I agree looks good but he apparently wants 70k pw plus add ons. Benrahma posted stupid stuff on social media so put the club off.

But at the back as a long term replacement for Cooper who would you want?

Gvardiol is supposed to be one Bielsa personally asked the powers that be to try to sign so he obviously sees something in him.

[WTF11]

Watkins I agree looks good but he apparently wants 70k pw plus add ons. Benrahma posted stupid stuff on social media so put the club off.

But at the back as a long term replacement for Cooper who would you want?

Gvardiol is supposed to be one Bielsa personally asked the powers that be to try to sign so he obviously sees something in him.

As I said, not done too much research and have to admit after the White saga kind of switched from the defender positions.

And wages an issue? We've been paying Casilla 50k/week for next to f00k all. I go back to my "selective" and on previous ones regarding value for money. Every player we go for (including the two Rodrigos etc) wont be coming to us on Championship wages. Play at the top table, be prepared to pay the price (another reason I like business like the Gelhardt lad, accepting there is a risk, but there is with any newcomer).

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Understood but the Rodrigos are proven at league and international level so will command more.

Surprised more clubs don’t weight contracts more towards performance. Basic of x and can double that based on performance.

Just looking forward to the season starting now - bet the players must be raring to go too.

See rugby trialled a crowd at the weekend for Quins v Bath and it went well. Sooner crowds are allowed back the better even if in limited numbers.

[WTF11]

Also a friendly at Brighton vs Chelsea (only 2,500 in the ground mind!)