Space Rocket Crash Landing

[The Bedlington Terrier]

You are quite right Supersub. A large part of our current malaise is that the Labour Party having promised to honour the June 2016 referendum result then p*ssed all over it. That happened on Corbyn’s watch.

Some people have some very short memories and the usual "Let's Blame Labour" starts flying FFS!

Attachment 17761

[Supersub6]

Some people have some very short memories and the usual "Let's Blame Labour" starts flying FFS!

Attachment 17761

BT --not short memories, just looking at things without any political bias. The simple fact is that Labour carried out their opposition plan to the limit and showed to the EU (the opposition) that there was definitely no unity at all in the British Parliament, in fact, they sussed out that many Tories were against Brexit and that they were aided by the Labour Party opposing everything anyway and not offering one constructive idea as to how Brexit should be achieved.
Like it or like it not, Labour is just as much to blame as those Tories who have also not accepted the will of the people. The joint venture to hinder Brexit has been an unmitigated success ---as far as the EU is concerned because, as sinkov said, they have walked off with billions of pounds of our money which, without all the obstructionists in out own Parliament, they would not have had.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Not having this at all Supersub6.

Cameron (Tory) started this Referendum malarkey off in the first place, thinking it was a no-brainer we would vote Remain.
.
Attachment 17764

Johnson (Tory) with his sidekick Farage (knob jockey) carried the Leave fight on his battle bus...

Attachment 17765

Mrs Fecking Hopeless (Tory) tried after a couple of hundred flights and numerous fish suppers to Brussels to get a deal and failed..

Attachment 17766

Remind me again where Labour are to blame for this sh!itfest?

[Supersub6]

BT --there are none so blind as those that will not see.
Obviously, because Labour were blameless in all the Brexit negotiations and supported what the people wanted. All the blame for failure would fall on the Tories and Labour would have a landslide election win when the chance came because so many would support them in their endeavours.
Why do we not have a Labour government, what went wrong? It should have been a landslide, particularly in areas like where I live, which has been Labour since before I was born -----and I am 74 this month.
Labour are every bit as much to blame for the Brexit mess as those who voted for it in the first place because they believed what politicians and non-politicians were telling them instead of thinking for themselves.

Cameron gave the people the referendum which they wanted and they voted the way that they wanted. He thought that they would vote to remain, they didn't and he resigned which would seem a reasonable thing to do when you are defeated. What has happened since has been beyond a joke and just shows how much politicians really wnaat to give the people what the people want!

It is so easy to see when you belong to the Monster Raving Looney Party because you are on the same wave-length as those in Parliament but you don't give a damn anyway.

[oldcolner]

Cameron expected to get some offers from the EU on immigration to help him, but they said Non and then a couple of years later changed the rules when Merkel was under pressure.

[1959_60]

Some revisionism on here!

You lot were have been telling me for years, "Let's just leave without a deal. We'll do fine on our own and countries will be falling over themselves offering us great deals"

Now it looks like you are getting your no-deal wish, you start blaming people for not getting one!

You should be breaking out the bubbly (while you can still afford it!)

[sinkov]

I don't think Brexit is, or ever was, a party political issue. The country was split Remain/Leave with a slight majority for Leave, our Parliamentarians were also split, not on a party political basis, but also Remain/Leave, with an overwhelming majority in favour of Remain. That in a nutshell was the problem, our Parliament was out of step with the country and actively sought to undermine the democratic result of the referendum.

Given the active opposition to the UK leaving by the majority of our Parliamentarians, it's a bloody miracle we're leaving at all. Given their treachery and the absolute determination of the EU to ensure as chaotic an exit as possible, 'pour encourager les autres', even at the expense of damaging their own businesses and inconveniencing their own citizens, the shambolic exit was always inevitable.

Certainly 59 is correct, there were some Brexiteers who said negotiating a trade deal with the EU would be a piece of cake, they were wrong. In their defence I can only say they were naive, they assumed they would be negotiating with a rational trade bloc who would see the clear and obvious benefits of a free trade deal between the UK and the EU, instead they found themselves involved in negotiating with a political bureaucracy, not interested in the economic benefits of a trade deal, just intent on trapping us in perpetuity in their political orbit, and with the help of treacherous MPs, Tory, Labour and LibDem, they very nearly succeeded.

I suppose those naive Brexiteers should have seen it coming, bless 'em, but even they didn't quite recognise just what a vile, vindictive intransigent organisation the EU actually is. We're well shut of it.

[1959_60]

Bottom line is, we wish to remain in their single market with no tariffs, border checks etc, but to be allowed to trade under our own trading standards and regulations etc. Not surprisingly, the other member nations think this is totally unacceptable. Why should a non-member be allowed this luxury when full members aren't?


A lot of Brits simply can't understand this.

[Supersub6]

Bottom line is, we wish to remain in their single market with no tariffs, border checks etc, but to be allowed to trade under our own trading standards and regulations etc. Not surprisingly, the other member nations think this is totally unacceptable. Why should a non-member be allowed this luxury when full members aren't?


A lot of Brits simply can't understand this.

As I said at the time --it is 27 versus 1 and they are not good odds --even to someone who does not gamble.
The EU have nothing to gain by giving us anything which is more favourable to us than any of its member states who remain as part of the union. Any deal favouring the UK will tempt other nations to have a look at their involvement within the EU.
Whichever way you look at it the whole thing is a mess and has been festering for over three years because of our lack of unity in getting things done.

[oldcolner]

Super
You hit the nail on the head with lack of unity.
Negotiations were undermined when Cameron expected to win the referendum and the civil service didn’t plan for a No vote and then left us in the lurch, them May lost Cameron’s majority by expecting to win an election against no hoper Jeremy easily and not involving colleagues in her thinking. Then MPs used the low majority for a free for all, supported by the Speaker and Supreme Court acting outside normal rules. Now Nicola and Blair have been working with the EU.
All those gave the EU time information and tactical superiority.
I didn’t expect them to declare war but their proposals for no deal are an outright attack on the country, they smell blood.
What a shambles.