The Corona Virus

[Norder]

.

also, without any diagnostic proof - Sinkov....just guesswork, and no information available, other than- they popped it - so must be the dreaded Convid, right ?

No sorry but that’s not true Norder

wrong again.


Guidance for doctors completing Medical Certificates of Cause of Death in England and Wales

3.Referring deaths to the coroner

Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID-19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available.In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...h-covid-19.pdf


World Health Organisation

Emergency use ICD codes for COVID-19 disease outbreak


An emergency ICD-10 code of ‘U07.2 COVID-19, virus not identified’ is assigned to a clinical or epidemiological diagnosis of COVID-19 where laboratory confirmation is inconclusive or not available.

https://www.who.int/standards/classi...sease-outbreak


as used by UK Gov - Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...nglandandwales

[Supersub6]

Yes, I have to agree with norder, they have given 'carte blanche' to include Covid19 on the death certificate and, as we all know, you can use statistics whichever way you want and they may or may not prove anything ---depending how clever you are with them.

[oldcolner]

Yes, I have to agree with norder, they have given 'carte blanche' to include Covid19 on the death certificate and, as we all know, you can use statistics whichever way you want and they may or may not prove anything ---depending how clever you are with them.

Not true super or

Norder
You misunderstand

First the MCCD is NOT THE DEATH CERTIFICATE, it’s a form used by doctors to inform the Coroner of the need for a post Mortem or for the Registrar of what they believe to be the causes of death for the REGISTRAR to issue the death certificate.

Second Only around half of deaths are referred to a coroner, either because the law says they need to be referred or crime is suspected.

Third Statistics are based on Death Certificates not MCCDs

What this below means

‘Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID-19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available.l

is the initial cause on the MCCD will either be checked by a post-mortem (one purpose of a coroner referral) or more checks if pre death tests have yet to be received. The coroner decides the cause of death for the Death Certificate that Registrars issue after a PM based on these. They want MCCDs quickly hence the avoid delay message.

If Covid tests after death are negative the death will not be recorded as Covid. It is also possible for a revised death certificate to be issued if test results show an error on the MCCD has been made.

Since Shipman death certification has been tightened up severely

In Scotland 1in 10 of all MCCDs are checked by an independent DC review service.

Relatives need a death certificate to progress funeral arrangements and thus delays are unhelpful, some religions expect funerals within a day of death.
Coroner referral can add significant delays to the date a death is recorded.

[Norder]

First the MCCD is NOT THE DEATH CERTIFICATE, it’s a form used by doctors to inform the Coroner of the need for a post Mortem or for the Registrar of what they believe to be the causes of death for the REGISTRAR to issue the death certificate.

Not true - Sub
or
Norder
You misunderstand

wrong....again.

Autopsy practice relating to possible cases of COVID-19

In general, if a death is believed to be due to confirmed COVID-19infection, there is unlikely to be any need for a post-mortem examinationto be conducted and the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death should be issued.

https://www.rcpath.org/uploads/asset...y-Feb-2020.pdf


--


Covid Pos = Guess

[oldcolner]

due to confirmed COVID-19infection

So that’s a Covid death then!

Not sure where you are going here.

[sinkov]

due to confirmed COVID-19infection

So that’s a Covid death then!

Not sure where you are going here.

'Confirmed Covid infection', which means no more than tested positive for Covid, which due to the possibilty it was a false positive, is no guarantee that the person actually had Covid at all.

"A “case” is a positive PCR test. No symptoms are involved. A “COVID-19 admission” to a hospital is a person testing positive by PCR before, on entry or at any time during a hospital stay, no matter the reason for the admission or the symptoms the patient is presenting. A “COVID-19 death” is any death within 28 days of a positive PCR test. If there is any doubt about the reliability of the PCR test, all of this falls away at a single stroke.

I have to tell you that there is more than common-or-garden doubt about the PCR mass testing that purports to identify the virus. We have very strong evidence that the PCR mass testing as currently conducted is completely worthless."

[Norder]

.

due to confirmed COVID-19infection

So that’s a Covid death then!

Not sure where you are going here.

[Norder]

'Confirmed Covid infection', which means no more than tested positive for Covid, which due to the possibilty it was a false positive, is no guarantee that the person actually had Covid at all.

"A “case” is a positive PCR test. No symptoms are involved. A “COVID-19 admission” to a hospital is a person testing positive by PCR before, on entry or at any time during a hospital stay, no matter the reason for the admission or the symptoms the patient is presenting. A “COVID-19 death” is any death within 28 days of a positive PCR test. If there is any doubt about the reliability of the PCR test, all of this falls away at a single stroke.

I have to tell you that there is more than common-or-garden doubt about the PCR mass testing that purports to identify the virus. We have very strong evidence that the PCR mass testing as currently conducted is completely worthless."

no need for a test even - Sinkov

COVID-19: death certification and cremation

In those cases where the doctor is confident on medical grounds that a particular cause of death is likely then that should be entered on the MCCD. COVID-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the MCCD, even without the results of a positive test, and it is important that likely COVID-19 deaths are reported as such via the registrar.
The rules surrounding the completion of the MCCD have changed following the Coronavirus Act 2020. In order for a doctor to complete a MCCD without referral to the coroner any doctor must have seen (including via video link) the patient in the 28 days before death, or alternatively in person after death. If these conditions are met, then a doctor may complete a MCCD which is sent to the registrar who will record the death and complete the paperwork to allow burial or cremation.

Deaths in the community during COVID-19

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-su...-and-cremation

Certification of Death

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/2843/bm...-july-2020.pdf

[oldcolner]

'Confirmed Covid infection', which means no more than tested positive for Covid, which due to the possibilty it was a false positive, is no guarantee that the person actually had Covid at all.

"A “case” is a positive PCR test. No symptoms are involved. A “COVID-19 admission” to a hospital is a person testing positive by PCR before, on entry or at any time during a hospital stay, no matter the reason for the admission or the symptoms the patient is presenting. A “COVID-19 death” is any death within 28 days of a positive PCR test. If there is any doubt about the reliability of the PCR test, all of this falls away at a single stroke.

I have to tell you that there is more than common-or-garden doubt about the PCR mass testing that purports to identify the virus. We have very strong evidence that the PCR mass testing as currently conducted is completely worthless."

Round in circles we go.
In counter balance there will be false negatives and those Covid deaths won’t count, nor will those over 28 days after a positive test.

Most Governments look at ways of reducing deaths stats from Covid. You seeem to believe ours is on a mission to increase them and lock down the economy to increase our debts.and have persuades all doctors and coroners to join them in this subterfuge. Sorry but that is just ridiculous.

For 50% of deaths the coroner will be the ultimate judge of whether a Covid death has occurred.

[oldcolner]

no need for a test even - Sinkov

COVID-19: death certification and cremation

In those cases where the doctor is confident on medical grounds that a particular cause of death is likely then that should be entered on the MCCD. COVID-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the MCCD, even without the results of a positive test, and it is important that likely COVID-19 deaths are reported as such via the registrar.
The rules surrounding the completion of the MCCD have changed following the Coronavirus Act 2020. In order for a doctor to complete a MCCD without referral to the coroner any doctor must have seen (including via video link) the patient in the 28 days before death, or alternatively in person after death. If these conditions are met, then a doctor may complete a MCCD which is sent to the registrar who will record the death and complete the paperwork to allow burial or cremation.

Deaths in the community during COVID-19

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-su...-and-cremation

Certification of Death

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/2843/bm...-july-2020.pdf

Interesting articles which make sense to me. What do they say thar supports your theory.
This seems to say it in a nutshell to me.

The BMA promotes the following core principles in these matters:
– That this subject matter is of significant distress to the bereaved. All participants in the system must be conscious of this and conduct themselves in a manner that does not add to the emotional suffering of families.
– All those involved respect the dignity, religious and cultural needs of the deceased and family members.
– The timely and efficient verification of death is highly important in the current crisis and those responsible should act accordingly. We encourage workers in the wider health and care system to work collaboratively with doctors to achieve this.
– The procedures for certification can provide a valuable safeguard against wrongdoing and everyone involved in this process should raise any concerns they have as a matter of urgency.