O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[MadAmster]

No he didin't, but there is a way of gaing people's trust and lets face it lying, waffling, ignoring advice and raising false hope isn't it.

Why only on Tuesday he was slagging off Starmer for wanting to cancel Christmas, then by Sat is doing just that! This is despite the fact that the rise in cases associated with a new strain of Covid was know on 9 Dec!

Then you ahve the stupid, we got the vaccine first because are better than all those other countries! No we bought it and accelerated the approval of a vaccine manufactured in belgium and created by Turkish immigrants in germany!

.... and it was EU regulations that permitted the speed up used whereby test results were appraised as they came in "chapter by chapter" as opposed to the usual way of waiting until all of the results are in before starting to look at the results that arrived.

No Tory "Clever Dick-ism" (my phraseology, not his) as claimed by Hand Cock

[swaledale]

Do you think maybe next time we could not elect a gratuitously irresponsible, notoriously dishonest, flagrantly racist *** case to run the entire ****ing country just because you like his funny hair?

Look at what you’ve done, you ****ing dickheads. Look at it.

[Ram59]

Then you ahve the stupid, we got the vaccine first because are better than all those other countries! No we bought it and accelerated the approval of a vaccine manufactured in belgium and created by Turkish immigrants in germany![/QUOTE]

Then you have the incredibly stupid. Let's analyse the facts, you have incredibly clever people throughout the world working very hard for different companies, not countries, to develope a vaccine. Don't forget that we have a vaccine being developed here in the UK, which is not just being developed for the rich countries, but also for those in the developing world, where they can't afford or distribute this vaccine. So, if you're going to start blowing your EU trumpet about this Pfizer vaccine, then I will raise you the Oxford one, which will be far more important in tackling this virus worldwide.

The only time governments can really make a difference, is to allow a process whereby these vaccines can get approved and into the general population and start saving lives. This is where this government has done the job, whereas the sloth or the EU has cost 1,000s of EU citizens lives through its usual inefficiency. They have had the same access to information as the UK.

It is one rare moment that this government has succeeded. Around half a million vulnerable people have already been vaccinated in the UK and shouldn't die from this virus. This figure will multiply by the time the EU manage to start saving their people.

If this was happening the other way round, don't you think that there would be an outcry as to why our government were delaying authorising the use of the vaccine. Then, when they came up with the excuse that others weren't being thorough, people would have ridiculed them.

To quote a certain poster on here, jeez!

[ramAnag]

But, you seem to imply that it's simple to get things right. Will you agree with me that the Welsh labour run government have made a right mess of things, which ultimately comes back to Starmer?

You find one example of me implying that ‘it’s simple to get things right’ and I’ll apologise immediately.
I know it isn’t ‘simple’ and I’ve never suggested it is.
As regards Wales...I don’t know what’s going on. All infectious illnesses tend to thrive in poorer areas and places like the Welsh Valleys and some coastal towns in the North are amongst the poorest places in the UK. You also have, in Holyhead, I think the second biggest lorry port in the UK so maybe we are seeing the Kent situation replicated.
I repeat for the ump****th time. Unlike the Brexit situation my stance isn’t about politics it’s about leadership. Whichever way you look at it Johnson is now following the advice he scoffed at from Starmer in last week’s PMQ’s. Even on here MA was describing what was happening in Holland and it was well known that the situation was worsening in places like Germany and Italy but, yet again, our Government dithered and didn’t act decisively. The result? Millions of people inconvenienced and disappointed along with Christmas Day chaos.

[Andy_Faber]

Agreeing again with Ram, and I really do wonder about folk in the country in general and on this forum especially that seek to highlight the failings and downplay the achievements of what happens in UK, be it govt-sponsored or not. 'UK are first to start a vaccine programme!' 'ah well but..... 'UK have developed the first truly worldwide-deployable vaccine' ah well but... etc etc. Just a bit nauseating in my view

[Andy_Faber]

You find one example of me implying that ‘it’s simple to get things right’ and I’ll apologise immediately.
I know it isn’t ‘simple’ and I’ve never suggested it is.
As regards Wales...I don’t know what’s going on. All infectious illnesses tend to thrive in poorer areas and places like the Welsh Valleys and some coastal towns in the North are amongst the poorest places in the UK. You also have, in Holyhead, I think the second biggest lorry port in the UK so maybe we are seeing the Kent situation replicated.
I repeat for the ump****th time. Unlike the Brexit situation my stance isn’t about politics it’s about leadership. Whichever way you look at it Johnson is now following the advice he scoffed at from Starmer in last week’s PMQ’s. Even on here MA was describing what was happening in Holland and it was well known that the situation was worsening in places like Germany and Italy but, yet again, our Government dithered and didn’t act decisively. The result? Millions of people inconvenienced and disappointed along with Christmas Day chaos.

Whats happening in Wales is they've ****ed it up, not especially because they are incompetent but because they are going up a massive learner curve with an adversary that from minute one had well and truly got them by the gaunards. The only thing I'd in particular knock them for is trying too hard to be a country as opposed to a big county within England, I think they've differentiated for the sake of it too much. For all her smooth delivery, Scotland have ****ed up too, the Scots certainly think so inasmuch as the opinion now broadly runs down the same line as the independance debate.

BUT, the UK govt have got 20 times the complexities and I don't think they've made 20 times the ****up, some's been a disaster but there's been some genuine brave thinking going on, I would say my particular area of expertise is round finance and its taken my breath away at times. I actually think cancelling Christmas was supreme decisiveness based on suddenly deteriorating circumstances, I often look back at any analogy I can draw with my own life and of the ones I can recall I have done EXACTLY the same, I'm not gonna bore y'all with the details.

[swaledale]

Agreeing again with Ram, and I really do wonder about folk in the country in general and on this forum especially that seek to highlight the failings and downplay the achievements of what happens in UK, be it govt-sponsored or not. 'UK are first to start a vaccine programme!' 'ah well but..... 'UK have developed the first truly worldwide-deployable vaccine' ah well but... etc etc. Just a bit nauseating in my view

WTF are you on? We are not downplaying anthing, it was a complete and utter falsehood that was spouted, pure jingoistic nonsense, schoolboy stuff, designed to play to those imbeciles that lap this sort of stuff up and yours and Rams responses show clearly where you sensibilities are! Little bloody englanders who somehow think this country is so superior to others when in fact we are no better and generally no worse.

Theres nothing wrong in being proud of what a country achieves, there is everything wrong in being jingoistic, and claiming credit for things that actually we didn't do, still its a bit like saying the Uk defeated Hitler (we forget that actually without he USA we would have been ****ed!).

How is deploying the vaccine first an achievement? its like being the first to buy a new model of a car and claiming you hve achieved something! In the grand scheme of timescales it isn't actually going to make much difference, but people being happy that its been properly assessed may make all the difference with those taking it.

I have to say its astonishing you seem to be swallowing the bull**** thats put out, I once thought it was people with few sentient thoughts that believed this stuff, but since Brexit, I have found people that I would normally credit with intelligent thought, saying stuff, that patently isn't true. I mean it can be factually shown not to be true, yet people still believe that is, I know one can have faith which transcends reality, but how long can one be deluded?

Thats what is what is truly nauseating!

[swaledale]

Compliance should not and cannot rely upon coercion. Had the government been wiser in setting rules, and more effective in communicating the regulations and advice and the reasons for them, it would not now be in the absurd position of sending police to urge people not to board trains home. Over this year, goodwill has not only been drained by the cumulative effect of lockdown, but squandered by official incompetence, the flouting of lockdown by Dominic Cummings and the discovery that while millions are struggling economically, the chumocracy has prospered from government handouts dished out with little scrutiny. That the bulk of the public still wants to do the right thing is despite, not because, of the government.

[swaledale]

Lets us not forget either that one of the reasons Covid is having such a devastating effect in poorer areas and the country is down to the policies implemented by a Tory government or a coalition government with the Tories in, over the past decade.

Public and health services cut to the bone, short staffed, I mean we can't even use the nightingale hospitals because we don't have enough nurses and Dr's, just go back to the disgusting treatment of them re recruitment, training costs wages by previous Tory governments!

Not using local authorities for track and trace, over centralisation the effort on covid, every decision made on the basis of whats good for Johnson and the Tory's rather than whats good for the country.

[ramAnag]

Agreeing again with Ram, and I really do wonder about folk in the country in general and on this forum especially that seek to highlight the failings and downplay the achievements of what happens in UK, be it govt-sponsored or not. 'UK are first to start a vaccine programme!' 'ah well but..... 'UK have developed the first truly worldwide-deployable vaccine' ah well but... etc etc. Just a bit nauseating in my view

Some facts for you Andy.
‘Big 5’ Covid cases. France 2,376, 852. UK 1,849,403. Italy 1,843,712. Spain 1,751,884. Germany. 1,337,078.
‘Big 5’ Covid deaths. Italy 64,520. UK 64,170. France 57,911. Spain 48,013. Germany 21,975.

UK visitors are currently banned from France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Austria, Finland, Poland, Denmark, Bulgaria, Holland, Turkey, Morocco, Canada and India.

The £ is in free fall. Kent is a car park and the ‘easiest ever/oven ready’ Brexit negotiations appear shambolic and, like everything else, ridiculously last minute when anyone with even a modicum of intelligence knows, and has known for some time, it makes no sense to be attempting such complex negotiations in the midst of a pandemic.

That’s the reality...so these ‘achievements’ and this ‘brave thinking’ of yours. Can we have some examples please? All I currently see and feel is sadness and shame.