Attn 123

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

'A great example of how being part of a large bloc benefits us is the Moderna Pfizer vaccine that has just been approved, the UK bought 40m doses at $28. The EU consolidated their purchase and bought hundreds of millions of doses at $18. They have by far the greater buying power. We opted out of the EU vaccine scheme which included joint procurement. That cost us $400m.'

There was always something about this that you posted on the Brexit Thread that bugged me and it took until this morning for it come to me.

THERE IS NO MODERNA PFIZER VACCINE!

Just me being pedantic? What it did do is made me think if this basic info is incorrect/disingenuous what else might be?

This also a line from your post and I have a similar disclaimer.

'These figures are not 100% accurate, but they are there or thereabouts'

The vaccine that is costing the EU $18 is Moderna so I assume it is to that you are referring. The Pfzer Vaccine is totally different.

a. The EU did NOT buy the Moderna vaccine at a better price than the UK because of bulk buying. They invested heavily in its development which quite rightly obtained them a discount. Your claim is false.

b. The EU paid $18 dollars for it the Yanks have bought less and paid $14.

c. The UK has bought 7 million doses. If we accept we have paid $10 a shot more (I can't find a figure) then that's $70 million more. A tad different to the $400 million you are claiming

d. We are one of only 4 countries to have per bought sufficient doses for everyone. The EU is at 78%. Bet the Germans and the French get their's.

e. Per head of population the UK has bought far more in Oxford Vaccine than the EU has. The Oxford is cheaper to buy, distribute and store than the vaccines bought by the EU. Seems like a good move to me. Agreed?

f. The UK and EU have paid the same for the Oxford. But the UK deal is such that if anything goes wrong the liability is with the manufacturer. The EU deal has them liable if there is litigation. Seems like we have the better deal.

What lead you to give us such a false picture

Ignorance?

Incorrect information obtained from a Remainer Rag?

Indoctrination blinded you?

Its just another of the many lies from Remain?

And finally a question to all. Whose hands would you rather have the lives of our citizens in. EU or UK?

[mickd1961]

'A great example of how being part of a large bloc benefits us is the Moderna Pfizer vaccine that has just been approved, the UK bought 40m doses at $28. The EU consolidated their purchase and bought hundreds of millions of doses at $18. They have by far the greater buying power. We opted out of the EU vaccine scheme which included joint procurement. That cost us $400m.'

There was always something about this that you posted on the Brexit Thread that bugged me and it took until this morning for it come to me.

THERE IS NO MODERNA PFIZER VACCINE!

Just me being pedantic? What it did do is made me think if this basic info is incorrect/disingenuous what else might be?

This also a line from your post and I have a similar disclaimer.

'These figures are not 100% accurate, but they are there or thereabouts'

The vaccine that is costing the EU $18 is Moderna so I assume it is to that you are referring. The Pfzer Vaccine is totally different.

a. The EU did NOT buy the Moderna vaccine at a better price than the UK because of bulk buying. They invested heavily in its development which quite rightly obtained them a discount. Your claim is false.

b. The EU paid $18 dollars for it the Yanks have bought less and paid $14.

c. The UK has bought 7 million doses. If we accept we have paid $10 a shot more (I can't find a figure) then that's $70 million more. A tad different to the $400 million you are claiming

d. We are one of only 4 countries to have per bought sufficient doses for everyone. The EU is at 78%. Bet the Germans and the French get their's.

e. Per head of population the UK has bought far more in Oxford Vaccine than the EU has. The Oxford is cheaper to buy, distribute and store than the vaccines bought by the EU. Seems like a good move to me. Agreed?

f. The UK and EU have paid the same for the Oxford. But the UK deal is such that if anything goes wrong the liability is with the manufacturer. The EU deal has them liable if there is litigation. Seems like we have the better deal.

What lead you to give us such a false picture

Ignorance?

Incorrect information obtained from a Remainer Rag?

Indoctrination blinded you?

Its just another of the many lies from Remain?

And finally a question to all. Whose hands would you rather have the lives of our citizens in. EU or UK?

Time on your hands today 923 😆

A very interesting read though, thank you.

[albion68]

'A great example of how being part of a large bloc benefits us is the Moderna Pfizer vaccine that has just been approved, the UK bought 40m doses at $28. The EU consolidated their purchase and bought hundreds of millions of doses at $18. They have by far the greater buying power. We opted out of the EU vaccine scheme which included joint procurement. That cost us $400m.'

There was always something about this that you posted on the Brexit Thread that bugged me and it took until this morning for it come to me.

THERE IS NO MODERNA PFIZER VACCINE!

Just me being pedantic? What it did do is made me think if this basic info is incorrect/disingenuous what else might be?

This also a line from your post and I have a similar disclaimer.

'These figures are not 100% accurate, but they are there or thereabouts'

The vaccine that is costing the EU $18 is Moderna so I assume it is to that you are referring. The Pfzer Vaccine is totally different.

a. The EU did NOT buy the Moderna vaccine at a better price than the UK because of bulk buying. They invested heavily in its development which quite rightly obtained them a discount. Your claim is false.

b. The EU paid $18 dollars for it the Yanks have bought less and paid $14.

c. The UK has bought 7 million doses. If we accept we have paid $10 a shot more (I can't find a figure) then that's $70 million more. A tad different to the $400 million you are claiming

d. We are one of only 4 countries to have per bought sufficient doses for everyone. The EU is at 78%. Bet the Germans and the French get their's.

e. Per head of population the UK has bought far more in Oxford Vaccine than the EU has. The Oxford is cheaper to buy, distribute and store than the vaccines bought by the EU. Seems like a good move to me. Agreed?

f. The UK and EU have paid the same for the Oxford. But the UK deal is such that if anything goes wrong the liability is with the manufacturer. The EU deal has them liable if there is litigation. Seems like we have the better deal.

What lead you to give us such a false picture

Ignorance?

Incorrect information obtained from a Remainer Rag?

Indoctrination blinded you?

Its just another of the many lies from Remain?

And finally a question to all. Whose hands would you rather have the lives of our citizens in. EU or UK?

923 as mick says thank you ,I await with bated breadth the response from 123,he’s probably ringing round all his friends now.asking how the f#£& do I put that to bed.

[WBA123]

'A great example of how being part of a large bloc benefits us is the Moderna Pfizer vaccine that has just been approved, the UK bought 40m doses at $28. The EU consolidated their purchase and bought hundreds of millions of doses at $18. They have by far the greater buying power. We opted out of the EU vaccine scheme which included joint procurement. That cost us $400m.'

There was always something about this that you posted on the Brexit Thread that bugged me and it took until this morning for it come to me.

THERE IS NO MODERNA PFIZER VACCINE!

Just me being pedantic? What it did do is made me think if this basic info is incorrect/disingenuous what else might be?

This also a line from your post and I have a similar disclaimer.

'These figures are not 100% accurate, but they are there or thereabouts'

The vaccine that is costing the EU $18 is Moderna so I assume it is to that you are referring. The Pfzer Vaccine is totally different.

a. The EU did NOT buy the Moderna vaccine at a better price than the UK because of bulk buying. They invested heavily in its development which quite rightly obtained them a discount. Your claim is false.

b. The EU paid $18 dollars for it the Yanks have bought less and paid $14.

c. The UK has bought 7 million doses. If we accept we have paid $10 a shot more (I can't find a figure) then that's $70 million more. A tad different to the $400 million you are claiming

d. We are one of only 4 countries to have per bought sufficient doses for everyone. The EU is at 78%. Bet the Germans and the French get their's.

e. Per head of population the UK has bought far more in Oxford Vaccine than the EU has. The Oxford is cheaper to buy, distribute and store than the vaccines bought by the EU. Seems like a good move to me. Agreed?

f. The UK and EU have paid the same for the Oxford. But the UK deal is such that if anything goes wrong the liability is with the manufacturer. The EU deal has them liable if there is litigation. Seems like we have the better deal.

What lead you to give us such a false picture

Ignorance?

Incorrect information obtained from a Remainer Rag?

Indoctrination blinded you?

Its just another of the many lies from Remain?

And finally a question to all. Whose hands would you rather have the lives of our citizens in. EU or UK?

Hold my hands up to a couple of mistakes, but the overall message I'm trying to portray is valid.

Pfizer BioNtech we have ordered 40m doses
Moderna we have ordered 7m
And the Oxford Astra Zeneca is around 100m doses.

The overpayment I was talking about, I got my wires crossed between Moderna and Pfizer including the purchase price. So, it looks like we have paid $37 per dose for Moderna and the EU have paid $18 per dose. On 7m doses = only a mere $133m more.

Of course, all of this is supposed to be confidential so I'd be surprised if either of our figures are completely accurate, but this looks there or thereabouts.

a. We opted out of the EU vaccine scheme and we would have secured the Moderna dosage at a better rate than what we have currently. The EU has far better buying power than we do. They were both the original points. And both are true and valid.

b. Each major country or bloc will have their own agreements. I fail to see a comparison with the US, to the difference between the UK and EU purchasing vaccines.

c. See beginning of this post about the extra Moderna costs.

d. Let's see what happens

e. I completely agree the vaccine is the most cost effective and easiest to store and move. Perhaps the one thing our Government has got right was hedging their bets on buying the cheapest vaccine that was available right on their doorstep?

f. This I have no idea about and can't be bothered to read up on, so I accept your point.

As for your final question, are you kidding me?? We have the largest death rate in Europe, largely thanks to having one of the most incompetent governments in the world.

Unless you are talking about the medicinal scientists at our top Universities, where you could rightly claim we are amongst the best in the world.

If your talking politics, then I would place our politicians very, very far down the scale of where I'd be comfortable of having my life in their hands.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Hold my hands up to a couple of mistakes, but the overall message I'm trying to portray is valid.

Pfizer BioNtech we have ordered 40m doses
Moderna we have ordered 7m
And the Oxford Astra Zeneca is around 100m doses.

The overpayment I was talking about, I got my wires crossed between Moderna and Pfizer including the purchase price. So, it looks like we have paid $37 per dose for Moderna and the EU have paid $18 per dose. On 7m doses = only a mere $133m more.

Of course, all of this is supposed to be confidential so I'd be surprised if either of our figures are completely accurate, but this looks there or thereabouts.

a. We opted out of the EU vaccine scheme and we would have secured the Moderna dosage at a better rate than what we have currently. The EU has far better buying power than we do. They were both the original points. And both are true and valid.

b. Each major country or bloc will have their own agreements. I fail to see a comparison with the US, to the difference between the UK and EU purchasing vaccines.

c. See beginning of this post about the extra Moderna costs.

d. Let's see what happens

e. I completely agree the vaccine is the most cost effective and easiest to store and move. Perhaps the one thing our Government has got right was hedging their bets on buying the cheapest vaccine that was available right on their doorstep?

f. This I have no idea about and can't be bothered to read up on, so I accept your point.

As for your final question, are you kidding me?? We have the largest death rate in Europe, largely thanks to having one of the most incompetent governments in the world.

Unless you are talking about the medicinal scientists at our top Universities, where you could rightly claim we are amongst the best in the world.

If your talking politics, then I would place our politicians very, very far down the scale of where I'd be comfortable of having my life in their hands.

The main premise of your post was the EU got a better deal because of bulk buying and this is simply not true. A fact you fail to acknowledge whilst admitting to to 'a couple of mistakes.' I can't find this figure of $37 for Moderna my info is £19.

There's a bloke goes into my local who is a rabid 'Leaver' and can see nothing good about Europe/EU. I call him Colonel Blimp.

Your lack of belief in the UK and acceptance of all things EU leads me to conclude your attitudes are just the other side of the same coin as the bloke from down the pub.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Time on your hands today 923 ��

A very interesting read though, thank you.

I have. Spent a lot of time recently trying to help my eldest (mostly with £ notes) set up a business. It's not going to happen any time soon despite his impatience so we're having a break from it until the NY.

[albion68]

Hold my hands up to a couple of mistakes, but the overall message I'm trying to portray is valid.

Pfizer BioNtech we have ordered 40m doses
Moderna we have ordered 7m
And the Oxford Astra Zeneca is around 100m doses.

The overpayment I was talking about, I got my wires crossed between Moderna and Pfizer including the purchase price. So, it looks like we have paid $37 per dose for Moderna and the EU have paid $18 per dose. On 7m doses = only a mere $133m more.

Of course, all of this is supposed to be confidential so I'd be surprised if either of our figures are completely accurate, but this looks there or thereabouts.

a. We opted out of the EU vaccine scheme and we would have secured the Moderna dosage at a better rate than what we have currently. The EU has far better buying power than we do. They were both the original points. And both are true and valid.

b. Each major country or bloc will have their own agreements. I fail to see a comparison with the US, to the difference between the UK and EU purchasing vaccines.

c. See beginning of this post about the extra Moderna costs.

d. Let's see what happens

e. I completely agree the vaccine is the most cost effective and easiest to store and move. Perhaps the one thing our Government has got right was hedging their bets on buying the cheapest vaccine that was available right on their doorstep?

f. This I have no idea about and can't be bothered to read up on, so I accept your point.

As for your final question, are you kidding me?? We have the largest death rate in Europe, largely thanks to having one of the most incompetent governments in the world.

Unless you are talking about the medicinal scientists at our top Universities, where you could rightly claim we are amongst the best in the world.

If your talking politics, then I would place our politicians very, very far down the scale of where I'd be comfortable of having my life in their hands.

the death rate per 100,000 you will find the U.K. is 4th behind Belgium Italy Spain its not great but there YOU go again putting this country down.

[stripes39]

'A great example of how being part of a large bloc benefits us is the Moderna Pfizer vaccine that has just been approved, the UK bought 40m doses at $28. The EU consolidated their purchase and bought hundreds of millions of doses at $18. They have by far the greater buying power. We opted out of the EU vaccine scheme which included joint procurement. That cost us $400m.'

There was always something about this that you posted on the Brexit Thread that bugged me and it took until this morning for it come to me.

THERE IS NO MODERNA PFIZER VACCINE!

Just me being pedantic? What it did do is made me think if this basic info is incorrect/disingenuous what else might be?

This also a line from your post and I have a similar disclaimer.

'These figures are not 100% accurate, but they are there or thereabouts'

The vaccine that is costing the EU $18 is Moderna so I assume it is to that you are referring. The Pfzer Vaccine is totally different.

a. The EU did NOT buy the Moderna vaccine at a better price than the UK because of bulk buying. They invested heavily in its development which quite rightly obtained them a discount. Your claim is false.

b. The EU paid $18 dollars for it the Yanks have bought less and paid $14.

c. The UK has bought 7 million doses. If we accept we have paid $10 a shot more (I can't find a figure) then that's $70 million more. A tad different to the $400 million you are claiming

d. We are one of only 4 countries to have per bought sufficient doses for everyone. The EU is at 78%. Bet the Germans and the French get their's.

e. Per head of population the UK has bought far more in Oxford Vaccine than the EU has. The Oxford is cheaper to buy, distribute and store than the vaccines bought by the EU. Seems like a good move to me. Agreed?

f. The UK and EU have paid the same for the Oxford. But the UK deal is such that if anything goes wrong the liability is with the manufacturer. The EU deal has them liable if there is litigation. Seems like we have the better deal.

What lead you to give us such a false picture

Ignorance?

Incorrect information obtained from a Remainer Rag?

Indoctrination blinded you?

Its just another of the many lies from Remain?

And finally a question to all. Whose hands would you rather have the lives of our citizens in. EU or UK?

A very interesting and well written post