Ref watch v Bluenoses (A)

[ramAnag]

But wasn't it you who said Cocu was hamstrung by Lampard in not being able to sign players?

Lampard’s slow departure certainly made things harder for Cocu in summer 2019. He still managed Bielik and Clark and try as I might I can’t see what Lampard had to do with such signings as Jozwiak, CKR, Byrne and Marshall.

I think only Jason Knight of last night’s side was in the Wembley squad (unused sub) for Lampard’s last match. Seeing as Rooney hasn’t yet been able to sign anyone last night’s side owed a lot to Cocu’s signings which was my point.

Pity he didn’t seem to be able to get them to play together.

[Andy_Faber]

Lampard’s slow departure certainly made things harder for Cocu in summer 2019. He still managed Bielik and Clark and try as I might I can’t see what Lampard had to do with such signings as Jozwiak, CKR, Byrne and Marshall.

I think only Jason Knight of last night’s side was in the Wembley squad (unused sub) for Lampard’s last match. Seeing as Rooney hasn’t yet been able to sign anyone last night’s side owed a lot to Cocu’s signings which was my point.

Pity he didn’t seem to be able to get them to play together.

Perhaps we should have retained him (or only employed him from minute 1) as a scout

[ramAnag]

Perhaps we should have retained him (or only employed him from minute 1) as a scout

Lol...perhaps, unless we owe McClaren Jnr more than we thought.

[swaledale]

Lampard’s slow departure certainly made things harder for Cocu in summer 2019. He still managed Bielik and Clark and try as I might I can’t see what Lampard had to do with such signings as Jozwiak, CKR, Byrne and Marshall.

I think only Jason Knight of last night’s side was in the Wembley squad (unused sub) for Lampard’s last match. Seeing as Rooney hasn’t yet been able to sign anyone last night’s side owed a lot to Cocu’s signings which was my point.

Pity he didn’t seem to be able to get them to play together.

I didn't suggest Lampard had anything to do with the signings, it was more your defence of Cocu, at least until most had come to the conclusion that he was useless, referred to the fact he had been hampered in signing players to build a squad due to Lampard. When now it seems, the players are good enough and it was Cocu's management that was at fault.

[ramAnag]

I didn't suggest Lampard had anything to do with the signings, it was more your defence of Cocu, at least until most had come to the conclusion that he was useless, referred to the fact he had been hampered in signing players to build a squad due to Lampard. When now it seems, the players are good enough and it was Cocu's management that was at fault.

I was referring more to the fact that you seemed to be intimating that my suggestion that Lampard’s slow departure handicapped Cocu in his first transfer window somehow contradicted my suggestion that Cocu made some very good signings.
It doesn’t, largely because at least four of Cocu’s signings...Jozwiak, CKR, Byrne, Marshall and Clarke (Mk2) were made in his third transfer window.
The only simple point I was making was that...for a manager who ultimately failed, his signings, on the evidence since Rooney took over, were remarkably good.

Of last night’s squad I think only Shinnie was technically a Lampard signing, although they never worked together, while Forsyth and Wisdom are longer standing signings and the rest are youngsters who also progressed well under Cocu, so while we seem better off without him his ‘legacy’ is surprisingly good.

[Ram59]

I didn't suggest Lampard had anything to do with the signings, it was more your defence of Cocu, at least until most had come to the conclusion that he was useless, referred to the fact he had been hampered in signing players to build a squad due to Lampard. When now it seems, the players are good enough and it was Cocu's management that was at fault.

In Cocu's defence, you could argue that 2 key players in the current team, CKR and Bielik, didn't get to full match fitness before he left.

However, I don't believe that the change of style of football is purely down to this. Also, when Rooney took over, he said that he was going to stop asking players to do things that they weren't capable of or comfortable with, basically, keep things simple.