EU and Brexit

[oldcolner]

59
It just takes political will to do the right thing.

And money!!!

[1959_60]

59
It just takes political will to do the right thing.

And money!!!

Beveridge managed it in 1948 OC, despite the fact we had just endured a long war!

[oldcolner]

Beveridge managed it in 1948 OC, despite the fact we had just endured a long war!

Not quite Beveridge wrote his report in 1942 Churchill leading a coalition government accepted the ideas in 1943 but it was left to the party that won the post war election to implement it. That happened to be Labour. They came up with legislation to fund it, not quite in the way Beveridge had intended.

The plan expected that these services would reduce ill health and the costs would gradually fall. The opposite happened, the service was asked to do more and more and the population rose. People then were willing to pay more taxes for this new service.
I think you will find people don’t want that nowadays remember the LD a penny on your taxes election promise?

[1959_60]

OC, the brutal truth is, if we don't spend the money then we won't solve the problem, and our health/care services will continue to struggle.
This is particularly true of Social Care.

If the people were convinced that, by paying a bit more, they would receive an excellent health and care service, free at the point of need, then the majority would be only too willing.

And it can be done. In 1948 the NHS was set up, which was a monumental change, despite the economy suffering badly after the war.

What is a realistic alternative?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

We need another Nye Bevan who realised the cost of the NHS had to be shared by the community.

Sunak is printing money like it's going out of fashion, I just hope some of the £350 million we are saving every week by leaving the EU will go towards those who have the misfortune to need the NHS.

UNITE!

[oldcolner]

OC, the brutal truth is, if we don't spend the money then we won't solve the problem, and our health/care services will continue to struggle.
This is particularly true of Social Care.

If the people were convinced that, by paying a bit more, they would receive an excellent health and care service, free at the point of need, then the majority would be only too willing.

And it can be done. In 1948 the NHS was set up, which was a monumental change, despite the economy suffering badly after the war.

What is a realistic alternative?

I don’t disagree with the motivation, but post war people were used to doing the right thing for others and for their country and were not bombarded by fake news or social media. Families looked after each other and older members we’re revered. The world is now more self centred and governments are not trusted, the altruism has gone, many families are broken, and the idea of suggesting new taxes as a vote winner are doomed. Oil fields are empty.

The alternatives are people have to pay for their care, relatives look after their elderly and their assets are stripped, the so called rich are hammered and so immediately leave the country or as more care moves from the NHS to social reduce the NHS budget - another vote loser.

Maybe Brexit will make us more prosperous and the profits can help improve funding, im not holding out hope though. I fear our savings will soon be targeted like Greece did and anyone with more than £100k lost the remainder. Happy Days.

[1959_60]

I don’t disagree with the motivation, but post war people were used to doing the right thing for others and for their country and were not bombarded by fake news or social media. Families looked after each other and older members we’re revered. The world is now more self centred and governments are not trusted, the altruism has gone, many families are broken, and the idea of suggesting new taxes as a vote winner are doomed. Oil fields are empty.

The alternatives are people have to pay for their care, relatives look after their elderly and their assets are stripped, the so called rich are hammered and so immediately leave the country or as more care moves from the NHS to social reduce the NHS budget - another vote loser.

Maybe Brexit will make us more prosperous and the profits can help improve funding, im not holding out hope though. I fear our savings will soon be targeted like Greece did and anyone with more than £100k lost the remainder. Happy Days.

OC, I have just sent you three private messages!

[The Bedlington Terrier]

OC, I have just sent you three private messages!

Is that because sinkov would spoil the thread?

[oldcolner]

Is that because sinkov would spoil the thread?

Lol

Just seen this so have replied 59.

[oldcolner]

Europe has made a hash of the vaccine.

Merkel gave the EU the role of buying the vaccine. The European Commission then mangled the job. It drifted through the summer. Under pressure from Paris it ordered 300 million doses of the ‘French’ vaccine from GSK-Sanofi in September, only to discover later that Sanofi’s clinical trials had run into trouble. By then the EU vaccine fund was running low.

Several countries balked at Pfizer’s hard-nosed demands - allegedly $50 (£36.80) a dose - for the ‘German’ BioNTech jab. No firm order was issued until mid-November, even though BioNTech had emerged as a front-runner months before. By then the EU had dropped down the pecking order. “Instead of mass delivery, the vaccine is reaching us as a trickle,” said Bild.

Israel has vaccinated more than a million people with the German jab. So has the UK. The US has surpassed four million. Germany is moving fast by EU standards at 320,000 but is already hitting buffers, partly because some Länder are struggling with the logistics, but also because supplies are running out.

But as far as we know, Germany will not receive more than token deliveries in January, and barely enough to make a decisive impact until late March.

What could change this is rapid approval of the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab by EU regulators. They are taking their sweet time - with the usual pieties about “high EU standards” - and may not act before February.

In France we are watching the parallel unravelling of the Europeanist Macron presidency. The leader who began this pandemic with the stirring words “we are at war” - repeated ever since - cannot explain why the French state had failed to vaccinate more that 352 people by the beginning of this week when Italy has done 129,000, Poland 51,000, or Denmark 47,000. The Balkans have done better.

Lack of vaccines imply an extra quarter of lockdowns and eurozone recession. This pushes Club debt ratios further beyond the point of no return. It pushes the French ratio into the danger zone. It pushes more struggling firms over the brink. It raises the risk of permanent scarring.

It implies that German taxpayers will have to dig deeper into their pockets to beef up the European Recovery Fund. The current €390bn grant component, spread over five years and 27 countries, is not going to move the macroeconomic needle.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-shook-europe/