O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

Interesting to hear a piece on the radio last night regarding the population's popularity of BJ as leader - there were a number of factors influencing peoples' perception - only a 10% approval rating for border closure for instance, but over 90% for vaccine rollout. The overall result, although frustratingly for me as statto, there was no absolute number, was that BJ's popularity has remained 'about the same' since the election, and trust has gone up (apparently more so since the daily briefngs have resumed). One of the most obvious things though was a feeling that he/HMG have been dealt a bad hand and 'who else would do any better'.

Proof that HMG's opposition aren't candidates emerged this morning after a bizarre interview with Angela Rayner, who lets remember is the second in command of the opposition. She was lobbying for teachers to be vaccinated ahead one or more of the currently identified groups to facilitate school reopening, a laudible enough idea. But when pushed on the fact that, in a resource (ie in this case vaccine) constrained situation, doing this results (logically/mathematically, not emotionally) in other people in the 'queue' getting their vaccine later, she just didn't get it, despite the interviewer giving her so many opportunities to reflect on her answer it was embarrassing. Supply chain experts the UK over must have been tearing their hair out, I think we may have found our new Diane Abbott

[ramAnag]

Interesting to hear a piece on the radio last night regarding the population's popularity of BJ as leader - there were a number of factors influencing peoples' perception - only a 10% approval rating for border closure for instance, but over 90% for vaccine rollout. The overall result, although frustratingly for me as statto, there was no absolute number, was that BJ's popularity has remained 'about the same' since the election, and trust has gone up (apparently more so since the daily briefngs have resumed). One of the most obvious things though was a feeling that he/HMG have been dealt a bad hand and 'who else would do any better'.

Proof that HMG's opposition aren't candidates emerged this morning after a bizarre interview with Angela Rayner, who lets remember is the second in command of the opposition. She was lobbying for teachers to be vaccinated ahead one or more of the currently identified groups to facilitate school reopening, a laudible enough idea. But when pushed on the fact that, in a resource (ie in this case vaccine) constrained situation, doing this results (logically/mathematically, not emotionally) in other people in the 'queue' getting their vaccine later, she just didn't get it, despite the interviewer giving her so many opportunities to reflect on her answer it was embarrassing. Supply chain experts the UK over must have been tearing their hair out, I think we may have found our new Diane Abbott

The ‘new Diane Abbott’ was discovered months ago, Andy...it’s Preti Patel.

Didn’t hear what you’re referring to and although I wouldn’t personally trust Johnson if he told us that ‘water was wet’...there’s no doubt that he’s handled some things better than others.

They seem, at this stage and I’ll reserve judgement until the second jabs have gone in on time, to be doing a good job with the vaccines. On the other hand our domestic Covid figures are shockingly bad and, one month in, Brexit just seems, as some of us said, to have been built upon a pack of lies. Credit - and criticism - where it’s due.

Personally, being in the 65-70 group I would be happy to delay my own vaccination a little if teachers (and others more at risk) were to take priority and be vaccinated over half term by which time all the over 70’s should have been done.

[Trickytreesreds]

Interesting to hear a piece on the radio last night regarding the population's popularity of BJ as leader - there were a number of factors influencing peoples' perception - only a 10% approval rating for border closure for instance, but over 90% for vaccine rollout. The overall result, although frustratingly for me as statto, there was no absolute number, was that BJ's popularity has remained 'about the same' since the election, and trust has gone up (apparently more so since the daily briefngs have resumed). One of the most obvious things though was a feeling that he/HMG have been dealt a bad hand and 'who else would do any better'.

Proof that HMG's opposition aren't candidates emerged this morning after a bizarre interview with Angela Rayner, who lets remember is the second in command of the opposition. She was lobbying for teachers to be vaccinated ahead one or more of the currently identified groups to facilitate school reopening, a laudible enough idea. But when pushed on the fact that, in a resource (ie in this case vaccine) constrained situation, doing this results (logically/mathematically, not emotionally) in other people in the 'queue' getting their vaccine later, she just didn't get it, despite the interviewer giving her so many opportunities to reflect on her answer it was embarrassing. Supply chain experts the UK over must have been tearing their hair out, I think we may have found our new Diane Abbott

That is the crux of it Andy.
I get all the snipes and howls about Johnson. Yes he does come across as a clown.
But WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE?

The opposition is dire. From Captain Hindsight, to Rayner genda friendly armed forces. It's a complete joke.

Johnson was elected on a promise over Brexit.
But that message was lost on most of these buffoons, who think they can ignore the general publicn and dictate what they want to see happen.

The opposition parties seem focussed on being champions for minority side issues, rather than a general representation.
British politics has probably never seen such a low level of quality available.

[Andy_Faber]

That is the crux of it Andy.
I get all the snipes and howls about Johnson. Yes he does come across as a clown.
But WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE?

The opposition is dire. From Captain Hindsight, to Rayner genda friendly armed forces. It's a complete joke.

Johnson was elected on a promise over Brexit.
But that message was lost on most of these buffoons, who think they can ignore the general publicn and dictate what they want to see happen.

The opposition parties seem focussed on being champions for minority side issues, rather than a general representation.
British politics has probably never seen such a low level of quality available.

Its a bit sad when almost all of the front bench reps on both sides are objects of fun/derision in one way or another, I guess political parties are no different to footy clubs, you have good eras and bad eras. I do actually like 'Captain Hindsight' (not just for his nickname) especially for his refusal to overplay party politics during the early days of the pandemic but not sure he will inspire any change in administration come the day

[ramAnag]

Its a bit sad when almost all of the front bench reps on both sides are objects of fun/derision in one way or another, I guess political parties are no different to footy clubs, you have good eras and bad eras. I do actually like 'Captain Hindsight' (not just for his nickname) especially for his refusal to overplay party politics during the early days of the pandemic but not sure he will inspire any change in administration come the day

As a nickname ‘Captain Hindsight’ has rather less justification than calling Johnson ‘General Myopic’.
‘Good eras and bad eras’? I suspect we haven’t had a good era since the first five years of this century but, even setting Party politics aside and sticking with an elected Tory Government, there have to be more competent and capable figures sitting on the sidelines...Hunt, Hammond, Rudd and Grieve to name but four...don’t like any of them but they do appear capable of joined up thought.

[Andy_Faber]

The ‘new Diane Abbott’ was discovered months ago, Andy...it’s Preti Patel.

Didn’t hear what you’re referring to and although I wouldn’t personally trust Johnson if he told us that ‘water was wet’...there’s no doubt that he’s handled some things better than others.

They seem, at this stage and I’ll reserve judgement until the second jabs have gone in on time, to be doing a good job with the vaccines. On the other hand our domestic Covid figures are shockingly bad and, one month in, Brexit just seems, as some of us said, to have been built upon a pack of lies. Credit - and criticism - where it’s due.

Personally, being in the 65-70 group I would be happy to delay my own vaccination a little if teachers (and others more at risk) were to take priority and be vaccinated over half term by which time all the over 70’s should have been done.

My analogy was within the bounds of the opposition, if the allegations about PP are true I'm not even sure there's been an equivalent back in time.

I do hate it though when people in positions of influence 'don't get the numbers', and Rayner's performance earlier was a bit dire, her only excuse would be if she was 'fed a line' by the party machine and stuck to it whatever to level of ridiculousness (God knows the conservatives do that enough)

[Ram59]

The ‘new Diane Abbott’ was discovered months ago, Andy...it’s Preti Patel.

Didn’t hear what you’re referring to and although I wouldn’t personally trust Johnson if he told us that ‘water was wet’...there’s no doubt that he’s handled some things better than others.

They seem, at this stage and I’ll reserve judgement until the second jabs have gone in on time, to be doing a good job with the vaccines. On the other hand our domestic Covid figures are shockingly bad and, one month in, Brexit just seems, as some of us said, to have been built upon a pack of lies. Credit - and criticism - where it’s due.

Personally, being in the 65-70 group I would be happy to delay my own vaccination a little if teachers (and others more at risk) were to take priority and be vaccinated over half term by which time all the over 70’s should have been done.

On the vaccination front the government appear to have set up the vaccination programme with enough capacity to easily obtain their targets, the average number of vaccinations given in the last week prove this and that's not including further centres and GPs starting up. The only limitation is likely to be the supply of doses, which will be down to the manufacturers or the EU stealing our doses.

I recently agreed with you on the vaccination of teachers RA, but after talking to a teacher friend of mine, she pointed out that she didn't see the point. The vaccine is not proven to prevent the spreading of the virus, so vaccinated teachers will not help slow the spread of the virus, also if any child or teacher or assistant in a class gets covid, then the whole class is kept off school and again the vaccinated teacher wouldn't be any better off.

Also, you seem to imply that teachers are more at risk, this has been proven not to be true on every survey that I've seen, including the ONS one released a few days ago. In fact primary school teachers and pupils were in a very low catagory.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Interesting post R59, it cuts to the heart of the "teachers must be vaccinated as key workers" argument much favoured by certain ex teachers of this parish.

Its rather like the earlier surveys that debunked the myth that NHS staff were more at risk than mere mortals. The mortality rates for NHS staff were in fact below average, despite being more exposed to the virus, because their work environment was safer

But you can probably prove anything by bending stats how you want to.

[Andy_Faber]

Interesting post R59, it cuts to the heart of the "teachers must be vaccinated as key workers" argument much favoured by certain ex teachers of this parish.

Its rather like the earlier surveys that debunked the myth that NHS staff were more at risk than mere mortals. The mortality rates for NHS staff were in fact below average, despite being more exposed to the virus, because their work environment was safer

But you can probably prove anything by bending stats how you want to.

The problem I see is that suddenly everyone becomes more worthy/important than everyone else. I'm not going to upset/rile other posters by listing 'factions' I've heard making pitches for a leg up in the queue but there are a few, personally I think doing it by age and (front line) hospital/care home worker is a fair approach, PLUS after so many have whinged about confused messaging by HMG, thats a very clear message.

[ramAnag]

On the vaccination front the government appear to have set up the vaccination programme with enough capacity to easily obtain their targets, the average number of vaccinations given in the last week prove this and that's not including further centres and GPs starting up. The only limitation is likely to be the supply of doses, which will be down to the manufacturers or the EU stealing our doses.

I recently agreed with you on the vaccination of teachers RA, but after talking to a teacher friend of mine, she pointed out that she didn't see the point. The vaccine is not proven to prevent the spreading of the virus, so vaccinated teachers will not help slow the spread of the virus, also if any child or teacher or assistant in a class gets covid, then the whole class is kept off school and again the vaccinated teacher wouldn't be any better off.

Also, you seem to imply that teachers are more at risk, this has been proven not to be true on every survey that I've seen, including the ONS one released a few days ago. In fact primary school teachers and pupils were in a very low catagory.

Some fair points, Ram. On the other hand, maybe it is precisely because teachers, like NHS workers and most shop workers are good at the use of proper PPE and because, in the case of teachers, classrooms haven’t been running at capacity that the numbers are relatively low.

What you and GP, who has I note returned to his mischievous asides, may not appreciate is the conditions teachers have been working in since September.
My daughter, for instance, who hasn’t missed a day since last June...has been teaching throughout the day with permanently open windows.
She wears a full face mask, has to hand sanitize repeatedly and from the moment the class arrives till the time they leave - 9.00 - 3.30 - they (pupils, teachers and teaching assistant) have to remain in their ‘bubble’ which means registration, all lessons, breaks and lunchtimes are spent together.
The only exception to leaving the group is for a toilet break...all other breaks are staggered so classes do not mix...until they’re handed back to parents of course.

Now in a world where we’re told to stay apart from each other and not mix it seems to me that spending day after day in a classroom in close proximity to 25 (at least 5 are usually ‘away’) other individuals constitutes a risk. Indeed if anyone else were choosing to behave in the same way they’d be demonised and fined...so, if you want schools open - and we all do - vaccinating the teachers doesn’t seem like rocket science to me.