Yet more lies perpetuating panic

[grantzer]

It wouldn't be all those people alive.

Sage minuted meeting with Boris and cabinet....."the public ain't sufficiently scared enough"

I could make the argument that sage felt if people were not scared,they would not follow the guidance. I know they were using psychological profiling at the time. And 50,000 give or take. Or 50k who would not have died when they did,give or take.....

[Deeranged]

But they still would be alive if covid didn't exist. There may be a few who got covid,recovered completely then died within 28 days, but I would imagine that's less than ten,out of 10,000....

Now who wants to control our behaviour,and why? What do these people gain from this so called control?

I totally get that you did a year at the open university,and I totally get how that makes you an expert on everything, so please,apply all that knowledge to that question.

I will let you in on a secret here, my personal opinion is that Scotland has done very well compared to the rest of the UK. I also think the measures in place go a bit far in Scotland.

I also think that these measures are in place for political reasons,but whether that is true or not,I also believe those measures save lives.

And if they only save one life,it's worth it. Whether that person was obese,smoked,had cancer, or whatever their circumstances, if they are still alive because of the measures in place,it was worth it.

But it's not one person,it's way more than that. And they didn't die of COPD,obesity, or heart conditions, they died because covid made those things worse. If an obese man was stabbed,and the doctor said if he was thinner,we could have saved him, he still died because of the stabbing, not because of his weight.

And remember,this is not a UK thing,it's worldwide,and people are dying everywhere. Doctors everywhere are saying covid is the reason for them dying. Are you telling me the doctors are lying? Are the doctors gaining from that lie? All over the world? Is there a secret group of doctors desperate to take away my freedom?

So,again,who and why? Who wants to control us,and what do they gain?

If you can answer that,and convincingly,maybe I will start taking your covid posts seriously.

Just don't take my posts seriously and we'll both be happy.

Some people will have died of their existing conditions and some wouldn't have - for me much. much more than 10 in 10,000 would have. Compare deaths in the Covid period with equivalent deaths in the same months for the preceding five years.

A year at the Open University? Aye OK.

I agree one life saved is better than none. However you need to consider the mental health impact and weight that life against the number of suicides in the same time. Thinking about it if the government can claim every death as a Covid death I can claim every suicide as a Covid related suicide.

Your analogy of the obese man being stabbed doesn't hold water, I can easily argue that if he was fitter he might have been that bit more able to withstand the associated trauma. However an acute, traumatic incident like a stabbing bears no relation to a more chronic condition such as Covid or any other virus.

If you can't see why governments would want to feel in control of their population then fair enough.

[Returnofrros]

I could make the argument that sage felt if people were not scared,they would not follow the guidance. I know they were using psychological profiling at the time. And 50,000 give or take. Or 50k who would not have died when they did,give or take.....

You shouldn't have to scare people by exaggerating the truth, remember they said...

1 million dead later reduced to 500k.

70% of over 70 year olds hospitalised.

4000 dead per week if we have Xmas

Hospitals always being overwhelmed.

There's been around 60 odd thousand deaths last year than 5 year ave if I mind right.

How many of those people would have been taken within a few months?

How many would have been taken by normal flu?

How many would be alive if they still had family contact?

How many would be alive if they had received cancer stroke or heart attack treatment when required.

Some of your points are very valid but please the 100k figure is impossible to debate.

[Returnofrros]

Remember ave age of death with covid mentioned on death certificate is 83.

Remember very few deaths under the age of 65 with no underlying, measured in the low hundreds.

Are the numbers tragic.....yes

Do I think it justifies lockdown....no

Do I think lockdown has saved many people.....in my opinion....no.

Do I think all our lives will be changed forever if people keep on allowing this to happen.....defo yes.

I firmly believe this is now western Govts default posistion and I find the meek acceptance of it extrodinary and terrifying.

Was all gonna be better with the vaccine......apparently not now and any new bogeyman they pull out now when they feel like it will result in restrictions.

Generations to come will ask why.....if they are allowed.

[grantzer]

It wouldn't be all those people alive.

Sage minuted meeting with Boris and cabinet....."the public ain't sufficiently scared enough"

Just don't take my posts seriously and we'll both be happy.

Some people will have died of their existing conditions and some wouldn't have - for me much. much more than 10 in 10,000 would have. Compare deaths in the Covid period with equivalent deaths in the same months for the preceding five years.

A year at the Open University? Aye OK.

I agree one life saved is better than none. However you need to consider the mental health impact and weight that life against the number of suicides in the same time. Thinking about it if the government can claim every death as a Covid death I can claim every suicide as a Covid related suicide.

Your analogy of the obese man being stabbed doesn't hold water, I can easily argue that if he was fitter he might have been that bit more able to withstand the associated trauma. However an acute, traumatic incident like a stabbing bears no relation to a more chronic condition such as Covid or any other virus.

If you can't see why governments would want to feel in control of their population then fair enough.

Did you answer the question anywhere in that waffle?

[Taintedice]

I'd imagine most were individuals with an underlying condition many of whom tested positive within the previous 28 days and who died of the underlying condition with Covid-19 as a possible contributory factor. Obviously some will also have fallen victim to unfortunate accidents, unexpected strokes, heart attacks etc.

There is no disputing that repiratory viruses will impact more on people who aren't in good health, that is no great revelation. None of these people whether they be obese, have asthma, have diabetes would have died without having contracting covid so the fact remains, they died because they contracted a deadly virus. You actually think doctors are part of the great conspiracy to control our lives, that is bat**** crazy talk. If you look at ONS stats from last spring, they show thousands of excess deaths over and above the 5-year average where covid was not mentioned on the death certificate. This would be because covid was a new thing about people weren't being tested for it, they were turning up to hospital in critical condition and dying. These were not counted as covid deaths. I just don't get this 'it doesn't count because they have plooks' type of thinking. People can live for decades with health problems, they don't just drop dead suddenly for no reason just as virus is circulating.

[grantzer]

It wouldn't be all those people alive.

Sage minuted meeting with Boris and cabinet....."the public ain't sufficiently scared enough"

Remember ave age of death with covid mentioned on death certificate is 83.

Remember very few deaths under the age of 65 with no underlying, measured in the low hundreds.

Are the numbers tragic.....yes

Do I think it justifies lockdown....no

Do I think lockdown has saved many people.....in my opinion....no.

Do I think all our lives will be changed forever if people keep on allowing this to happen.....defo yes.

I firmly believe this is now western Govts default posistion and I find the meek acceptance of it extrodinary and terrifying.

Was all gonna be better with the vaccine......apparently not now and any new bogeyman they pull out now when they feel like it will result in restrictions.

Generations to come will ask why.....if they are allowed.

I am pretty certain that lockdown has had a negative effect on a lot of people. I am also certain that the vast majority of under 65s will survive covid.

But if lockdown saves grannies and grandad only, then it is surely worth it.

Take covid out of it, and lockdown is horrendous, but argue that lockdown can be adapted. Make sure people who are not coping get the help they need. Make sure that people who are ill can get medical help. Find a way to let family see each other,but the principle of lockdown is sound. The drop in cases during lockdown one show that.

Lockdown is far from perfect,but you can't let perfect be the minimum level,otherwise you would do nothing.

[Taintedice]

Despite what you may think I know a lot more about what is going on outwith Islay.
I am not going to tell you how many people have died in hospitals throughout Scotland solely from the Covid-19 virus. You give the impression that you know everything so you will obviously know the answer to my question.

I already gave you the answer, it is zero. No-one dies from 'just covid', they die because the virus invades the body and causes any number of organ failures, typically lung collapse as it's a respiratory virus. Maybe you're meaning how many people have died who had no previous conditions, which can include anything from acne to gout. But again, you're failing to understand (on purpose) that because the virus did not spread as widely in the population as you would like it to, people in good health aren't being impacted so much. ICU beds in England are now being taken up by younger people in their 20s and 30s because they've lost control down there, due to Johnson being a murdering ****. That's what you want for Scotland as well, is it?

[Deeranged]

There is no disputing that repiratory viruses will impact more on people who aren't in good health, that is no great revelation. None of these people whether they be obese, have asthma, have diabetes would have died without having contracting covid so the fact remains, they died because they contracted a deadly virus. You actually think doctors are part of the great conspiracy to control our lives, that is bat**** crazy talk. If you look at ONS stats from last spring, they show thousands of excess deaths over and above the 5-year average where covid was not mentioned on the death certificate. This would be because covid was a new thing about people weren't being tested for it, they were turning up to hospital in critical condition and dying. These were not counted as covid deaths. I just don't get this 'it doesn't count because they have plooks' type of thinking. People can live for decades with health problems, they don't just drop dead suddenly for no reason just as virus is circulating.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Never have I said doctors are part of any conspiracy, in fact I've never said there's any conspiracy - it's an exercise in social control, no more and no less.

To suggest none of the people with asthma, COPD, heart conditions etc. would have died at all in that time is what's bat**** crazy. They tested positive for Covid and they died, they could have got colds then died but the cold would not be the primary cause of death.

But you know all of the above and are simply trolling again.

[Taintedice]

Remember very few deaths under the age of 65 with no underlying, measured in the low hundreds.

This is what people know as eugenics, a reminder of when Adolf Sumption told a young cancer sufferer that her life wasn't worth as much as his because she had cancer.