O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

I have no PPE experience either but I think I would have looked at places like the other 2 large EM cities where they have the sort of expertise necessary to produce PPE. One has centuries experience in producing lace and lace products. The other has thousands of small clothes factories. Moving to PPE production would not have been anything like q quantum shift for them.

It's not rocket science. Just takes a little bit of thought.

Just to demonstrate that there are no easy answers, I presume you mean those two EM cities where many of the ‘factories’ employ women at significantly below minimum wage and in some cases pay directly into their husbands’ bank accounts, two amongst many transgressions constantly being chased by trading standards and other agencies. I get that info from a friend in the (lace) industry who’s customers (he’s a designer) actually considered ‘inshoring’ work to U.K. recently because the U.K. pay rates are lower than their usual ones - in Turkey...

So, popping our NHS into PPE made in Leicester using modern slavery and making rich businessmen richer? Shall I tell Nurse Lovelock?

Just making a point that ‘it’s complicated’

[MadAmster]

Just to demonstrate that there are no easy answers, I presume you mean those two EM cities where many of the ‘factories’ employ women at significantly below minimum wage and in some cases pay directly into their husbands’ bank accounts, two amongst many transgressions constantly being chased by trading standards and other agencies. I get that info from a friend in the (lace) industry who’s customers (he’s a designer) actually considered ‘inshoring’ work to U.K. recently because the U.K. pay rates are lower than their usual ones - in Turkey...

So, popping our NHS into PPE made in Leicester using modern slavery and making rich businessmen richer? Shall I tell Nurse Lovelock?

Just making a point that ‘it’s complicated’

Nothing is perfect and, yes, sweatshops anywhere are abhorrent. Yet another case of certain groups, again, ignoring UK Laws. Surely the NHS could demand that its suppliers obey the Law?

Also time for everybody to get equal treatment under the Law..... or is that asking too much?

[ramAnag]

Just to demonstrate that there are no easy answers, I presume you mean those two EM cities where many of the ‘factories’ employ women at significantly below minimum wage and in some cases pay directly into their husbands’ bank accounts, two amongst many transgressions constantly being chased by trading standards and other agencies. I get that info from a friend in the (lace) industry who’s customers (he’s a designer) actually considered ‘inshoring’ work to U.K. recently because the U.K. pay rates are lower than their usual ones - in Turkey...

So, popping our NHS into PPE made in Leicester using modern slavery and making rich businessmen richer? Shall I tell Nurse Lovelock?

Just making a point that ‘it’s complicated’

You do make a fair point, AF...but similarly you do seem to be taking us away from the ‘friends, family and donors’ aspect. Two wrongs etc.

[Andy_Faber]

You do make a fair point, AF...but similarly you do seem to be taking us away from the ‘friends, family and donors’ aspect. Two wrongs etc.

Not excusing one with the other, just adding colour to the picture

[ramAnag]

Not excusing one with the other, just adding colour to the picture

Hmmm, ‘just adding colour’ and offering a ‘view not an a opinion’. It seems you’re in mischievous mode.

[Andy_Faber]

Hmmm, ‘just adding colour’ and offering a ‘view not an a opinion’. It seems you’re in mischievous mode.

No, seriously, sometimes its better for me and all for a change in slant for a while. Just because GP is absent at the mo there's no need for me to step into his place

[Ram59]

You do make a fair point, AF...but similarly you do seem to be taking us away from the ‘friends, family and donors’ aspect. Two wrongs etc.

I think at the time there was a certain amount of panic RA and the government, possibly incorrectly in this case, fell back to using those closest to them.

A similar analogy would be, the country is hit by a hurricane with many properties suffering roof damage, you've had tiles ripped off your roof and despite ringing around, you can't get anyone to answer the phone, never mind give you a quote, so when your brother-in-law says that he's got a mate who's done a bit of roofing, you jump at the chance, as there is rain forecast for tonight.

You could argue that the government should have been able to do better than the brother-in-law's mate, but it's difficult to appreciate the chaos, that was going on behind the scenes at the time.

[ramAnag]

I think at the time there was a certain amount of panic RA and the government, possibly incorrectly in this case, fell back to using those closest to them.

A similar analogy would be, the country is hit by a hurricane with many properties suffering roof damage, you've had tiles ripped off your roof and despite ringing around, you can't get anyone to answer the phone, never mind give you a quote, so when your brother-in-law says that he's got a mate who's done a bit of roofing, you jump at the chance, as there is rain forecast for tonight.

You could argue that the government should have been able to do better than the brother-in-law's mate, but it's difficult to appreciate the chaos, that was going on behind the scenes at the time.

I’m sorry Ram but that seems a really daft analogy to me.
Of course individuals might clutch at any ‘straw’ in a crisis, but we’re talking here about a major World Government and hundreds of millions of pounds which may have been, coincidentally, misdirected towards friends, family and donors.
There really is no comparison and I’m actually surprised at you trying to defend the situation.

[Andy_Faber]

I think at the time there was a certain amount of panic RA and the government, possibly incorrectly in this case, fell back to using those closest to them.

A similar analogy would be, the country is hit by a hurricane with many properties suffering roof damage, you've had tiles ripped off your roof and despite ringing around, you can't get anyone to answer the phone, never mind give you a quote, so when your brother-in-law says that he's got a mate who's done a bit of roofing, you jump at the chance, as there is rain forecast for tonight.

You could argue that the government should have been able to do better than the brother-in-law's mate, but it's difficult to appreciate the chaos, that was going on behind the scenes at the time.

That's absolutely how it goes in times of panic/urgency. IF (big IF) HMG, acting for the taxpayer, went for their mates who they KNEW could do the best job possible in the circumstances I'm fine with a bit of a premium price so long as the delivery and quality side of the contract is nice and tight. What I WOULDN'T be fine with is if HMG went for mates with NO track record of delivering the required goods/services JUST because they were mates.

So Ram's right if he's got a relative's mate up on his roof if that mate's mate is REALLY a roofer. If the relative's mate is a barrista, an actor or an accountant, Ram's wrong and he's been done over by his relative. The analogy is fine