OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

So predictive.

[Andy_Faber]

further research has shown

As usual, all I ask for is a link to that research. I know that winds you up but it has to be said, because I honestly think you make it up in a fit of wokeblindness

[ramAnag]

I've made this point before, based mainly on anecdotes from my unfiltered social media accounts (ie i am 'friends' with all sorts, not just those who agree with my POV) and from conversations during my significant travel round the UK (pre Covid) mainly pursuing my music mag editorship:

Regardless of what the exam question was, most folk I spoke to (who voted leave) did so for one of three reasons, none really to do with our relationship with EU and all intertwined. They were:

Lack of control of immigration - from anywhere. VERY few ever expressed a blanket hatred of the concept of immigration, fewer still a hatred of immigrants as individuals, but the lack of any effective filters was a constant 'top of the pops' in any discussion.

Loss of control, not of sovereignty but of 'Britishness' (and more specifically, because the smaller nations seem more able to resist, Englishness). The idea that 'diversity' is 'good for us' and 'something we need to embrace' is considered a box of *******s by most people, funnily enough the more so the more someone lived in a 'diverse' community (come to Great Yarmouth with me any time with a 'Diversity Rules' badge on if you want a healthy discussion!)

A feeling that 'we the people' are being subject to coercive control by 'the establishment' being told 'what's right' in a manner far more extreme than even the old days of 'doffing one's cap' to the gentry

The 'me' of 2009 would have just laughed all that off, but it was then that I started 'getting out more' (and very much outside my bubble) and had my eyes opened. As I've said 1000 times before I voted remain, and very much from an 'I'm alright Jack' point of view, but I've stuck up for the Brexit result and those who voted thus because I've seen the anger and despair out there that the normal 'man in the street' has been marginalised, and Brexit was seen as a means to punch 'the establishment' on the nose without especially betraying deeply held political leanings

Observation not (necessarily) opinion

I’m sure you’re right.

So basically you’re agreeing that there was a racist aspect and you must recognise that voting against membership of the EU for reasons that were not ‘really to do with with our relationship with the EU’ was ridiculous.

What is this Britishness or Englishness that you speak of and why is it threatened by ‘diversity’? Like the USA we are a nation of immigrants and have been for time in memoriam.

‘Coercive control by the establishment...in a manner far more extreme than the old days of doffing one’s cap to the gentry’...I can accept the ‘unelected bureaucracy’ objections to the EU...but look at us now...a PM who spends £800 plus on a roll of wallpaper for his flat while his Government opposes efforts to protect those who live in properties encased in flammable cladding and with inadequate fire doors. Seems worse than any doffing of caps to me and a particularly telling juxtaposition as regards the state of Britain and possibly ‘Britishness’ today.

P.S. I’ll pass on the invitation to Great Yarmouth thanks...and I don’t wear badges.

[Trickytreesreds]

I’m sure you’re right.

So basically you’re agreeing that there was a racist aspect and you must recognise that voting against membership of the EU for reasons that were not ‘really to do with with our relationship with the EU’ was ridiculous.

What is this Britishness or Englishness that you speak of and why is it threatened by ‘diversity’? Like the USA we are a nation of immigrants and have been for time in memoriam.

‘Coercive control by the establishment...in a manner far more extreme than the old days of doffing one’s cap to the gentry’...I can accept the ‘unelected bureaucracy’ objections to the EU...but look at us now...a PM who spends £800 plus on a roll of wallpaper for his flat while his Government opposes efforts to protect those who live in properties encased in flammable cladding and with inadequate fire doors. Seems worse than any doffing of caps to me and a particularly telling juxtaposition as regards the state of Britain and possibly ‘Britishness’ today.

P.S. I’ll pass on the invitation to Great Yarmouth thanks...and I don’t wear badges.

It's old ground, but what he says is true. You don't have to be racist to stick up for your own first,

1. Immigration- unchecked and flooded areas, putting strian on housing/jobs/services. The low paid suffered the most.
2. Diversity as you call it, comes in many forms. How diverse is it, where you live? For some folks, they have had their areas turned into mini Bahgdad or Warsaw. Is that fair?
3. The establishment- well for most, they didn't like the fact that more and more decisions were being made abroad by an immovable body. At least you can vote out a plank that spends £800 on a roll of wall paper here. Though most folks know, it is only scandalous when a Tory does it. I suggest you look up who spent what, over the last 30 years.
4. The state of Britain, you need to explain more. I think the crime figures in say London, speaks volumes from your multi cultural paradise stance.

Of course the usual xenophobic/racist/little Englander gammon fury will come for having an opinion.

[AdiSalisbury]

Uh.... I've booked a holiday to Great Yarmouth this year, and I wear RSBP badges!

[Trickytreesreds]

Uh.... I've booked a holiday to Great Yarmouth this year, and I wear RSBP badges!

Reject Swales Bull**** Posts?
RSBP

[ramAnag]

It's old ground, but what he says is true. You don't have to be racist to stick up for your own first,

1. Immigration- unchecked and flooded areas, putting strian on housing/jobs/services. The low paid suffered the most.
2. Diversity as you call it, comes in many forms. How diverse is it, where you live? For some folks, they have had their areas turned into mini Bahgdad or Warsaw. Is that fair?
3. The establishment- well for most, they didn't like the fact that more and more decisions were being made abroad by an immovable body. At least you can vote out a plank that spends £800 on a roll of wall paper here. Though most folks know, it is only scandalous when a Tory does it. I suggest you look up who spent what, over the last 30 years.
4. The state of Britain, you need to explain more. I think the crime figures in say London, speaks volumes from your multi cultural paradise stance.

Of course the usual xenophobic/racist/little Englander gammon fury will come for having an opinion.

1. I’ve never been in favour of ‘unchecked immigration’ and the ‘strain’ you speak of.

2. I didn’t introduce diversity into the debate...Andy did...and what has Baghdad got to do with Brexit and the EU?

3. Giving amoral liars like Johnson a significant majority creates exactly the same ‘immovable body’ albeit for a possibly shorter period.
Not sure what your comment about ‘who spent what over the last thirty years’ implies or what it has to do with the situation I described.

4. I’ve never described a ‘multi cultural paradise’ or used the phrase ‘gammon fury’. I do think that most Brexiteers exhibited varying degrees of xenophobia, racism and Little Englander mentalities...that too is my opinion and I note you’ve carefully avoided the post Brexit Northern Ireland situation.

[Trickytreesreds]

1. I’ve never been in favour of ‘unchecked immigration’ and the ‘strain’ you speak of.

2. I didn’t introduce diversity into the debate...Andy did...and what has Baghdad got to do with Brexit and the EU?

3. Giving amoral liars like Johnson a significant majority creates exactly the same ‘immovable body’ albeit for a possibly shorter period.
Not sure what your comment about ‘who spent what over the last thirty years’ implies or what it has to do with the situation I described.

4. I’ve never described a ‘multi cultural paradise’ or used the phrase ‘gammon fury’. I do think that most Brexiteers exhibited varying degrees of xenophobia, racism and Little Englander mentalities...that too is my opinion and I note you’ve carefully avoided the post Brexit Northern Ireland situation.

My response isn't directed at you specifically RA.
However, since you've taken it as such.
1. The strain has been there. So please ask yourself, how diverse is where you live and would you understand having your neighbourhood turned into mini foreign country?
2. Baghdad and Warsaw were mentioned by me, as to show how diverse, successive governments have changed this country.Aided by EU migration policies.
You can go from Oldham to Norwich to experiance these swings. Plese don't tell me a flood of different cultures over a short space of time hasnt changed areas. It has and not always for the better.( this applies to lot of Europe in different ways).
3. Amoral liars? Aren't they all? Blair/Brown/Cameron/May/Johnson.
You keep mentioning Johnson, but never one of the others. Who was/is the worst?
4. Northern Ireland? Never dodged it never will. It is one of those difficult ones that's impossible to solve. The majority want the Union, but that means the minority want trouble. The UK bent a lot for peace of sorts, but the problem was/is never solved. Now don't try to claim the EU sorted it. It didn't. It has mearly opened up the cracks again.
It is also unforgivable how the EU had deliberately tried to exploit it, as I highlighted in a previous post. Barnier caught red handed telling them to focus on causing trouble in Ireland.
Peace my arse, they care only about their Union of lies.

[swaledale]

As usual, all I ask for is a link to that research. I know that winds you up but it has to be said, because I honestly think you make it up in a fit of wokeblindness

Nope it doesn't wind me up, it just proves to me how dumb you are, these things are esily found if one bothers and to be frank, when I see ignorant people posting that its just my "woke" opinion, I just collapse with laughter at how really ****ing ignorant people are!

For a start anybody who uses the word "woke" as an insult or a term of abuse is not worthy of consideration, I understand how frustrating it must seem to be out of touch, to be some cranky old git wishing for the 1950's to return but hey thats your and the other tw@ts problem not mine.

As for providing a link, go ****ing find out for yourself if you want to dismiss what i say fine, but its you who choose to remain ignorant and in your own little bubble.

What i really find funny is that most on here are completely taken in by the *******s - Thicky parrots stuff gleaned from right wing fake news internet sites and is so dumb he posts links to them, anyone with half a brain cell would read the stuff on there and understand its the ramblings of a deranged mind, but Thicky is unaware of this and makes
himself such a **** by his claims.

Anyway gents, love to stay and chat but hey you can't argue with the dumb.

[Trickytreesreds]

Nope it doesn't wind me up, it just proves to me how dumb you are, these things are esily found if one bothers and to be frank, when I see ignorant people posting that its just my "woke" opinion, I just collapse with laughter at how really ****ing ignorant people are!

For a start anybody who uses the word "woke" as an insult or a term of abuse is not worthy of consideration, I understand how frustrating it must seem to be out of touch, to be some cranky old git wishing for the 1950's to return but hey thats your and the other tw@ts problem not mine.

As for providing a link, go ****ing find out for yourself if you want to dismiss what i say fine, but its you who choose to remain ignorant and in your own little bubble.

What i really find funny is that most on here are completely taken in by the *******s - Thicky parrots stuff gleaned from right wing fake news internet sites and is so dumb he posts links to them, anyone with half a brain cell would read the stuff on there and understand its the ramblings of a deranged mind, but Thicky is unaware of this and makes
himself such a **** by his claims.

Anyway gents, love to stay and chat but hey you can't argue with the dumb.

So predictable
Do you require forceps, to get that size 6 out of your top lip?